The Light

[Romanov77]

Ok, it has been a while since the last time I posted something costructive in this forum, so....

I just realised that I know almost nothing about the "Light"...

Worshipped by men and elves, being used by the Silver Hand Paladins and the Elven priests...

So, what is this Light?
To me, it seems a cult based on the power of Life....

[Kingcrazygenius]

Based on what I have heard from others and infered for myself, the Light is a philosophy which encourages goodness and truth and abstinance from things that are not goodness and truth. It can't really be called a religion since there is nothing to really worship, unless Blizzard decides to personify the light.

[Purplebeard]

Indeed. It is merely a philosophy. From what I've heard its priests' power doesn't come from the Light itself rather than a belief in the Light.

[Romanov77]

What about thaty Angel/spirit that pops up when the paladin uses resurrection?

Pure gameplay? Or personification??

[Kingcrazygenius]

I'm going to say it's just a gameplay thing. There is no evidence of a species of holy winged creatures.

[Romanov77]

I'm going to say it's just a gameplay thing. There is no evidence of a species of holy winged creatures.

Yet, there must be some deeper reason why blizzard put it in...

At least thats what I always felt...

[Nephalim]

I'd chalk it up to looking cool. I also wouldn't put much thought into the crosses adorning the Warcraft 2 churches. It looks to me that the Light was originally going to be very Christian-esque, but now it's assumed an almost Buddhist system of beliefs, using the Catholic institutional hierarchy.

The Light does have saints, though. But it worships no singular higher power, and I have yet to come across anything about angels. If they ever did have them planned, they likely scrapped the idea to distance Warcraft's religion of the Light from the Diablo religion of the Light.

[Lord Kil'jaeden]

Talking about angel-like beings , is there any information on the Spirit Healer (http://img120.exs.cx/img120/1746/spiritheal29pe.jpg) other than the simple gameplay resurrection mechanism in cemeteries ?

Is this some kind of warcraft deity/semi deity , an agent of one of them , or someone undercover (like the undercover dragons) ?

[Kingcrazygenius]

I'd say it is some kind of spirit that heals bodies and rebinds them to their respective souls.

[twisted orc]

Indeed. It is merely a philosophy. From what I've heard its priests' power doesn't come from the Light itself rather than a belief in the Light.

As far that i've heard and read the power of the light is provenient from the own nature, this also counts for the other mana users class, with the exception of the magi and the warlocks, what powers are from the twisting nether.

[Nephalim]

Well, strictly speaking, dying and everything involved in it is all a gameplay mechanism. Making it more than that leaves a LOT of questions that don't have any respectable answers.

Recall that in early stages of the beta, the spirit healers were all character palettes from their respective races and had names, like every other vendor in the world. I think perhaps the reason they made them all identical and took away their names was, in part, in an effort to reduce their legitimacy, lore-wise. I might look at them with more credence if the Spirit Healers were culture-specific (IE Angels for Human graveyards, Creepy wraiths for Undead, some sort of crazy animal-thing for tauren, a valkyrie for dwarves, etc) but right now I think of them as eye candy.

[Romanov77]

Neph, you made me remember the Cross that was on the War2 church (time to reinstall)...

Have we seen this symbol anywere other than there?

[Diskordjah]

I seem to recall a cross-like symbol on banners in the Scarlet Monastery.

[Nephalim]

If we're talking about the same symbol I'd say it's a far stretch to call it cross-like.

In response to Romanov, aside from the crosses also on the roof of the Warcraft 1 churches, no I haven't seen them elsewhere.

[Kingcrazygenius]

They could just as easily be fancy lower-case T's.

[Paladin307]

Ya but when you clicked on the church it gave you some nice latin chant. LoL and the cross island that Dalaran was based from. They were definitly going somewhere with it, but I guess they moved away from it.

[Inquisistor7]

Ya but when you clicked on the church it gave you some nice latin chant. LoL and the cross island that Dalaran was based from. They were definitly going somewhere with it, but I guess they moved away from it.

Plus the paladins could use "exorcism." Deo grazias...

[Kingcrazygenius]

There are plenty of new age religions that offer the occasional exorcism. Speaking of which, that movie Constantine rules to the max.

[Nephalim]

Though the term exorcism may have been coined by Christians, the idea had been around for ages beforehand, in plenty of different religions. Christianity hardly has it copyrighted.

[Inquisistor7]

Fair enough. I only pointed it out because it seemed to fit the notion of the philosphy of the Light being influenced by Chrisitanity (what with it being researched in a church and all).

[Kingcrazygenius]

Though the term exorcism may have been coined by Christians, the idea had been around for ages beforehand, in plenty of different religions. Christianity hardly has it copyrighted.

To be perfectly anal Catholicism is the only denomonation that actually performs such things. I wish to learn to do them myself.

[Nephalim]

To be perfectly anal Catholicism is the only denomonation that actually performs such things. To be even MORE perfectly anal, exorcism was actually around in Christianity before Constantine's conversion so before Catholicism actually existed.
Fair enough. I only pointed it out because it seemed to fit the notion of the philosphy of the Light being influenced by Chrisitanity (what with it being researched in a church and all).As I said before, I think the only influences Catholicism has on the Light is institutionally. The belief system is rather far from Christianity's.

[Kingcrazygenius]

To be even MORE perfectly anal, I'm going to ****ing kill you.

Wait, is that being anal?

[quetzalcoatl5]

There are plenty of new age religions that offer the occasional exorcism. Speaking of which, that movie Constantine rules to the max.

It really does.

To the point, the concept of embodyment and such is fairly common. Avatars and the like are mortals infused with the supernatural.

[Paladin307]

I will smite thee in His honor!...I can never get enough of that line and then Satan just punks her ass.

Hmm I think Blizzard was making the Paladins really into some sort of crusader force, but with warcraft3 they moved away from that path and made something more unique and interesting. While it was cool having the cool little Christian knights in war2, I think it is better to make something more fantasy based as its not the real world.

[Inquisistor7]

Sorry for bringing back an essentially dead thread, but I have a quick question about the Light: is there an afterlife (a heaven and all that) in their philosophy?

[Kingcrazygenius]

I think it does, considering Uther condemned Arthas to Hell with his dying breath.

[Nephalim]

Aside from the occasional offhanded comment, this hasn't been elaborated. In fact, it hasn't been for any cultures. The existence of a life after death is a fact in Azeroth, not just a religious belief, so the vagueries are fitting.

[Kingcrazygenius]

I don't know about that. Life after death seems to be very elaborated among the Cult of the Damned and the Scourge. One could say it is a central tennet.

[pbot]

One quick thing, when the Paladin performs resurrection, I always thought that the Angelic figure was Tyreal, basically, Blizzard decided to do a cameo.

[Azuriel]

Tyreal has a hood and his wings are all tentacily... not.... birdy..
so i highly doubt that posibility.. but.. good idea :y-thumbsu
and.. though no one prolly cares.. id say the light was started off as a complete nod the cotholocism, but they deviated from that path... because of the... "itchyness" of Christian popularity these days....

[WarStar]

I think it does, considering Uther condemned Arthas to Hell with his dying breath.
i would say yes for that reason aswell

[Kingcrazygenius]

The Light can heal the scratches from a troll.

The Light can return a walking corpse to the ground.

The Light can bring life itself back into a fallen comrade.

But it won't save you money on your car insurance.

[DriftingSpirit]

LoL. (Has to have more than ten characters to post...)

[Deaths Call]

lol, there were crosses when Arthas rescued that town in wc3

[Reign of Kalos]

lol, there were crosses when Arthas rescued that town in wc3
This may be due to if crosses were not used, people simply wouldn't realise what the doodad was to represent. We see a cross in the ground, we think grave. Try not to over interpret the game enviroment. Besides of which, since when has the game ever been 100% accurate to the lore? For example the differences between the two incarnations of Andorhal in RoC.

[Flinn Gaidin]

Two Andorhals?

[Nephalim]

Arthas rescues Andorhal in the Scourge of Lordaeron, and then by the time he returns to it in Path of the Damned, it has undergone a severe geographical shift, due to, I am convinced, a series of impossibly convenient tectonic shifts that, praise Eonar, left the buildings intact.

[Kingcrazygenius]

Maybe one mission took place in one portion of Andorhal and the next took place in a different portion?

Or perhaps rediculous tectonic activity is commonplace on Azeroth.

[Nephalim]

I consider the latter more likely. It would also account for the geographical reformation of Andorhal between Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, and the fact that Dun Modr and Dun Algaz switched places in the span of 15 or so years.

[WarDragon]

I consider the latter more likely. It would also account for the geographical reformation of Andorhal between Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, and the fact that Dun Modr and Dun Algaz switched places in the span of 15 or so years.
That's giving Blizzard a little too much benefit of the doubt, Neph. Takes less suspension of disbelief to just ignore the nonsensical things like that as being in the same category as altars and spirit healers; purely for gameplay. The Modr/Algaz switch was either a simple mistake, or more retconning.

[Reign of Kalos]

Maybe one mission took place in one portion of Andorhal and the next took place in a different portion?

Or perhaps rediculous tectonic activity is commonplace on Azeroth.
I'd disagree with the first on the basis that parts of Andorhal looked quite similar to its human campaign incarnation, yet others, such as a whole population of houses on the far side of the river, across a bridge that ironically remained broken the whole time. The walls of the city remained in both of these chapters.

However, then we have WoW's version. No trace of walls at all, and the broken bridge has been fixed. Apparently the scourge decided to demolish half of the town, and reconstruct the east bridge for reasons unknown, as a tactical move it would only be done if they were planning to move troops south from Andorhal quickly and effectively, yet this appears not to have been happening, to the point where Stormwind has set up a military camp not two miles away from Andorhal now.

The point is that there is no proper, formal expanation for this. The level designers weren't quite consistent. Linked in with the point I raised before, it seems as if we cannot go by the ingame representations alone really. We must assume that the designers take certain liberties with accuracy and minor story setting elements in order to make the game play a little better. I would not be looking to justify the changes in lore terms, as in a massive reconstruction program on Andorhal not once but twice.

[virgil cane]

I will smite thee in His honor!...I can never get enough of that line and then Satan just punks her ass.

Hmm I think Blizzard was making the Paladins really into some sort of crusader force, but with warcraft3 they moved away from that path and made something more unique and interesting. While it was cool having the cool little Christian knights in war2, I think it is better to make something more fantasy based as its not the real world.


The Paladins are more like Jedi sadly, and that makes Arthas Anakin and Uther Obiwan. The Paladins are like the gaurdian/generals of the Lordeaon and human empires

[twisted orc]

Best definition Ever!


Or you could use any of the 50like paragraphs of the guys above.

[virgil cane]

Maybe one mission took place in one portion of Andorhal and the next took place in a different portion?

Or perhaps rediculous tectonic activity is commonplace on Azeroth.


A large group of psycotic Far Seers perhaps?

[virgil cane]

That makes Death Knights the Sith, Anubarak General Grievious and the Lich King the empoerer. Amidala is Jaina, without the dying and stuff... and children, but anyway, Lucas might wanna talk with Blizzard about this...

[DriftingSpirit]

think before you talk please, Virgil. What you said is beyond off topic, we are not speaking of the relativeness (if any exist at all...) between Star Wars and WarCraft. This is about the religious light that shines upon us.

Back to topic, as for the light, I find it hard to define as a religion and more of a faith. Recently I finished a game called Kingdom Hearts, and its sequal is great as well. In the game, they speak of light as a source of power that resembles somewhat of pureless of people. Whoever have played the game should try to think of the similarities, because I believe WarCraft's way to speak of light is very much similar to Kingdom Hearts.

[Kingcrazygenius]

The Light is false, an opiate for the masses. True power lies in serving the Dark Lord, Ner'zhul. Join us, and know the bliss of eternal life.

I so could have been a Cultist of the Damned.

[Nephalim]

The Light is a philosophy, it's not an actual thing. The powers used by the clergy come from within, through discipline and extensive training.