WoW Any Good? I'm Not So Sure...

[SnapSlav]

A contraversial topic here, I know, but I have good reasons to think so. However this isn't about me ranting as to why I (not quite yet) think so, but rather purposing reactions from other players as to what they think makes WoW a good game. Worth my money, if you will.

I'm more than aware that this isn't a very SP topic, but other than the OTF, I can't see where else this will fit. This isn't a very "Off" Topic, and a lot of the information concerned with this has to do with gameplay and story, so mayhaps it fits in with Single Play just dandy, and "Lore" even if just slightly.

I've been waiting for WoW since 2002, ever since RoC made a landmark in home desktops, and while I was waiting, I was keeping current on the news of updates and beta fixes and new content; anything I could devour about WoW. In the midst of it all, in February 2004, I was introduced to Lineage II, another MMORPG that pushed its way through developement to 'be there first' and came to stores by April. At first I didn't care about it, and decided to idely (more jokingly) make a character on my friend's account, and then I decided to play it a bit. The first thing I noticed was it was beautiful: damned visually appealing, and my first human female mystic was eye candy every time I played. Then I noticed that it put Diablo II to shame, which is an understatement. It took my expectations of RPGs and serviced them with understanding, and balance! By the time I was used to the game, a patch came out (known as Chronicles) that added to the world, and there was more to do. Finally, I decided I didn't want to have parts of my friend's account, and made my own (and paid for it), and I wanted to play so bad that I didn't let my 56k (and AOL) interfere with me and L2, and I went to LAN centers to enjoy it how it should've been enjoyed. That's a lot of money, and that's dedication for you...

Chronicle 2 Debued on December 8, and with it came another dimension to the world, but so came WoW to the store shelves around the same time. I started seeing WoW take up the PC slots at my community LAN center, and I observed it with great interest. But my heart sank with what I've learned these past months. I understand that there are no penalties for dying, in WoW, that all one must do is find one's body, and other than time, nothing's lost. In WoW, no one person can PVP another, it must be Alliance VS Horde, and even then, on non-PVP servers the option to PVP must be activated. I also noted that WoW had disappointing graphics, as I'd grown accustomed to L2's inconspicuous attention to detail. The story moved on from the previous games, but then what? None of the players seem to desire to advance the storyline, which is solely the players' responsibilities in WoW, not the patches' like in L2. Players lvl rather easily in WoW, and I saw a player reach lvl 54 (the top lvl is currently 60) in 3 weeks from questing alone; zero hunting. I'm glad that unlike L2, WoW keeps its players occupied with quests all the time, and never bored, but the easy lvling lacks a challenge.

Didn't Blizz learn from Diablo?

Perhaps what I've thought was the worst was WoW's economy. All the monetary items in the game have multi-dimensional uses, and the "worth" of such items is relative. As such, there's no stability in the games economy. In L2, one item was clearly better or worse than another, unless it was a different class of item, in which case it still had an "equal" among the other item classes. In WoW, it would seem anyone can make anything as long as they have the materials and means to craft. This looks like it destroys the value of items if it's in anyone's hands to produce their own.

I'm sure WoW has its good qualities that beats out City of Heroes, Lineage II, Everquest II, and other MMORPGs of late, but I can't see them as of yet. Perhaps those that do can enlighten me; I didn't purchase the Collector's Edition of WoW to just sit on my shelf and collect dust.

[Kingcrazygenius]

It sucks, there.

Now shut up before I weight the pros and cons of homicide vs. suicide.

[Diskordjah]

hmm, from wording in your post it would seem like you haven't actually played WoW that much, is that correct?

[Kingcrazygenius]

I can't afford to, and it never downloaded in time for me to try the damn beta.

[Rowan Seven]

Your knowledge of "World of Warcraft" has a few errors. PvP is not strictly Alliance vs. Horde. Mutually consensual duels are possible between any two players, regardless of race and faction, and even on non-PvP servers outposts and settlements have NPCs that will attack members of the opposite faction on site, engaging the player's PvP flag and allowing players of the opposite faction to attack him or her if they decide to do so. Dying is also not without penalties. Unless the player is involved in PvP when he or she dies, it has been my experience that items lose a noticeable degree of durability. Die often, and the player will need to repair his or her items more often, which at higher levels can be a significant expenditure. The spirit healer's instant resurrection, I believe, reduces durability by 25%. As for the economy, you are right about it lacking stability, but considering the state of the game world I find the lack of price guards reasonably realistic. The entire player economy is one of awareness, supply, and demand, and the cost of items largely depends on the current circumstances. This can lead to extraordinarily good deals and frustratingly bad ones, and if you prefer paying the same price for the same item regardless of time and place I can see why this would be a disappointment. It works for me, though, and I think it makes sense.

Graphics are what you make of them. Yes, the graphics aren't cutting edge, but I believe the art style fits the Warcraft world fairly well, and the game does have its moments of breathtaking beauty. The storyline is advanced through quests, and the actions that players perform will, I suspect, be incorporated in any future installments of the series.

As for what I like about the game, I find it to be a fun experience. I feel like I'm making a difference in the "World of Warcraft" through the actions my character performs, and the quest system, although easier than leveling through hunting, gives me incentives to explore and continue playing. Socializing with other players can also be interesting, at least on the RP server I'm on. I remember one night there was an hour long discussion near the Echo Isles over which Alliance race tastes the best. Dwarves won out, apparently, because they're "beer-soaked." :g laugh:

[SnapSlav]

Well, good to get the precise type of reply I was looking for, now if only I can get some more!

I've heard of the mutually consentual duels, but to my understanding, those aren't true PVPs, because the duels end when one party is at a certain point of health, and the duel ends. That restriction is what disappoints me about it.

In Lineage, PVPs are up to the players. If someone PVPs, they earn "karma" that needs to be worked off, and their name changes color. If players have karma, they are considered "chaotic", and cannot enter towns without being attacked (and always killed) by the guards. If chaotic, players suffer HUGE probabilities of dropping their items if they die, and any other player can kill them without earning karma. Ergo, the PVP system is full of checks and balances that has no restrictions, but still stops players from killing everyone, and making bad days for newbs.

This isn't without its bad sides, and things called "griefers" have been born. They try to get players killed without actually killing them. Leading herds of hostile mobs over to players and then logging out, or casting crippling spells on players as they hunt are some of the ways these players get others killed without getting their hands dirty. However, the community of the game has many players that act as watchdogs, and players gleefully spread the word about known PKers and Griefers. One of the fun parts about this is finding chaotic PKers, and yelling in towns about their location. This gets all kinds of players excited and HUGE expeditions get together to hunt PKers down. It's really fun to watch.

When I heard of the faction system in WoW, I thought it had potential, but I'm not seeing much of it come through. And the lack of death penalty is just a shame.

What I mean by a stable economy is one where the prices can't be shifted by players alone. In Lineage, there are two kinds of trade, personal exchange and shops. Players can agree to trade with each other, and trade items for items, or items for game currency. If players can't get that, they open up personal shops for all to come by and see their wares, and they set their own prices in order to attract customers, or net profit. It all follows supply and demand. What usually sets the market price of items is the price that an item costs if bought from NPCs, and how much they can be sold to NPCs. For example, an item might cost 322,000 and be sold for 122,000, so players set up shops and sell said items for 220,000. The seller gets more money, and the buyer pays less, so both parties benefit. This has kept the market stable since Lineage came out in beta.

I was hoping for more technical aspects to WoW that were attractive VS other MMORPGs, since who doesn't play a game for fun? I will say though, from what I've seen, even though the graphics aren't as convincing in certain areas, sometimes I think the scenery in WoW is superior to other RPGs. I've yet to see anything worth mention from Everquest II, and City of Heroes, thought gorgeously landscaped, is all just one big city. I rather liked watching NE players wander through hunting zones and see as the foliage shifted from green to purple (of all colors). Suffice it to say, I think WoW might just have the best ambiance.

[IlidanStormrage]

Players can set up shops, persay, using Trade or General chat channels. The Auction House is very good for selling moderately rare items, however very rare items never (In my experience) sell very well.

As for a death penalty, it would be a pain in the ass to lose a level or to lose gold just for dying. Losing durability on weapons is enough, and I get aggrevated enough with dying as is.

The graphics are awsome. Perfectly represent Warcraft, not Realcraft. It has, as you say, the best ambience.

PvP is not complete in WoW. Once the honor system is implimented it will prevent ganking on weaker players and vastly improve the PvP enviroment. In duels, you lose when you die, but you will be left with one health point. Would it really by fair to have to find your corpse just because you were dueling?

[Spoon-O-Death]

The Dishonor system is gonna bring down PvP so much, it makes it so unrealistic the way that you cant kill things far before your lvl, an Orc might not kill him for Honours sake, but a Forsaken? they kill everything that gets in there way, lvl or not. Its blizzs way of makinjg everyone a care bear.

On a more on-topic note, WoW is great, Im not sure if its worth the few years of delay we suffered through, and you really do need a top of the line comp to play it flawlessly.

[Kingcrazygenius]

I don't see why you should make it easier for griefers to kill off new characters just for the sake or realism. They are paying their $15 a month, they should be allowed to play without the fear of being knocked off by some uber 1337 character on a regular basis.

[Spoon-O-Death]

That is why you have the choice of PvE or PvP servers, PvE being where you must manually PvP yourself to engage in combat with the other faction, plz all you care bears for the love of god stay out of pvP im sick of the whining.

[SnapSlav]

Well, like I said, the purpose of this thread is to explain (hopefully in good detail) all the aspects that makes WoW great for those who play it. Excluding fun, as hopefully all games grant that. Examples of things to state: What is this honor system? I don't know, so tell me! How will future patches affect the game? What more will be added to the game, as hopefully all MMORPGs are never "trully" complete at any time.

In response to the idea about griefers getting opportunities, it's actually being NOT 1337 that leads players to grief. Griefing is all about deception, so the problem isn't the PKer, but the victim. Too many players are too stubborn or stupid to give up a hunting spot to save their lives. But this is all why I like the setting of the arena. Lots of players hang out there to kill each other with forward honesty, because no one cares about who dies. No karma is earned, and no one loses anything. Everyone can have fun.

I don't think finding your corpse is a very inspiring concept in WoW. It doesn't make sense. It's creative, but cumbersome. It leaves PKers the perfect opportunity to camp at a corpse. And I think it's more than fare to suffer death if you duel. You wanted to fight, so you should bear all the consequences of it. I thinks that fine!

And for reference, despite my time in an MMORPG, what exactly IS "care bear"? No wise cracks about that crappy 80's cartoon!

[Kingcrazygenius]

Obviously the references to care bears do stem from that lame 80's show, and apparently allude to overly nice people who will try to avoid conflict even if it kills them.

[SnapSlav]

I'm aware of the allusion to that POS, but I didn't want some smartass coming in and saying, "Der... 'Care Bears' is an inspiring and beautiful work of art from the 1980's, which teaches how to-" yadda yadda yadda.

[Diskordjah]

well, the MOST IMPORTANT thing about the honor system is that its... canceled. bout 2 months ago, at least. no honor system, no siree. its FFA in all contested territories on the PvP server.

However, something that I DO like about WoW is that you dont actually have hunting spots like you do in many other MMORPGs. quests have seen to that. I dont see much grinding at all.

[Spoon-O-Death]

A care bear is indeed someone who does not take to PvP whining constantly about how they are being attacked by higher level groups, etc. and with the corpse camp thing, you can ressurect in a fairly large radius around your corpse making it slightly more difficult for them to catch you (hunters excluded who will just use concussive shot, a marksmen technique that will slow you down/stun you) yes a 55 paladin camping a lvl 35 troll shaman is sucky, but it happens.

[SnapSlav]

That reminds me, what restrictions are in place regarding ranged attacks? Bows most notably. I would assume that spell caster classes are generally lower on the HP scale, but the hunter is a fighter class, so I don't think that's the case. What makes bow use NOT overpowered? I haven't noticed anything visible when watching hunters play that makes the bow no less exploitable than other weapons.

[Kingcrazygenius]

I assume that, among other things, ranged weaponry depletes ammo and is also slower than melee weaponry. Also rangers, from what I have read, cannot wear as heavy of armor as Warriors and Paladins and such, so they are less able to take damage.

[SnapSlav]

Well, though I dislike harping on and on about Lineage, it's what I know, so I'll cite it as my example, which by now must have come to be expected...

Armor in its own right has different balances, and there are 3 types: Robes, Light, and Heavy. Robes have aweful defense, but add mana. Light armor, for those with Light armor mastery, adds to evasion, and has much better defense. Heavy armor has no other pluses than the best defense that can be offered, and unlike other games, does not slow down players at all. It took one Diablo vet friend of mine repeated reminders before he figured that out...

As for bows, they are the slowest weapon in game, deal the best damage per strike in the game, and tie for most often critical rate with daggers. Arrows, while a monetary detriment for having to be restocked over and over, aren't much concern, since the money to buy a few hundred arrows can be made after killing a few dozen mobs. But things have changed in the latest patch, since lots of mobs have arrow resistence, and even more have spells that make ranged characters hurt. It all encourages partying with other players (preferably buff tanks), and makes sure just because a player has a bow that they can't do everything thanks to it.

So I made a comparison of bow use in Lineage, which I know well, as I have an Elven Scout that uses Bows exclusively, and WoW from watching other players, and I saw no sloth in speed, and the players were spared damage at all due to running. But I haven't seen a regular warrior yet, which appears to be the only simple stand-alone fighter class in WoW, so maybe, for all I know, attack speeds are generally faster in WoW. I speak from observations, so as of yet I don't know...

[Diskordjah]

in WoW, you get cloth, leather, mail and plate armour. priests, warlocks and mages can ONLY wear cloth. hunters, shamen, druids and rogues are restricted to leather (but can wear cloth if they want to!). paladins and warriors can wear mail, and plate once they pass lvl 40.

as for ranged, its all about the abilities. see, a hunter has all the neat things that make them deadly from afar: concussion shots, extra firerate, traps to set when the enemy gets close etc, and THATS how they get their damage per second. many classes can learn how to use the same guns or bows, but only hunters really excell at them.

resitrictions you ask for? well, theres a minimum range as well as a maximum.

[Spoon-O-Death]

Also Hunters can wear mail armour as they pass lvl 40, the dowside of bows, is that you must waste a bag slot(you have a maximum of 5) on carrying bullets/arrows. also you cannot fire bows while moving(thank god) and all the things mentioned are what makes the hunter one of the best classes PvP wise.

And I believe warriors and paladins can wear mail before lvl 40.

[Diskordjah]

yes they can, and they move to plate after lvl40.

[Rowan Seven]

Shamans can also acquire the ability to wear mail once level 40 is reached. Like spells, though, this ability costs gold.

[kooaznboi1088]

It sounds like you expect WoW to be an exact duplicate of Lineage 2 only you want addtional perks.
Well, they both have different systems in which they work on.

The economy in WoW focuses on Gold/Silver/Copper, with the trade values in gold not above 1000 unlike Lineage 2. Also, WoW does in fact have stuff you are looking for. Auction House is a way to sell stuff you have aquired for more than the vendor buys it for.
And there are soulbound items that cannnot be traded if you have worn them, avoiding the "soj economy" and other diseases that plauged Diablo II.

The PvP system is that you can KOSite the Alliance if they invade Horde territory.
And you can challenge members of your own faction to a 1v1 Duel.
ALSO there are Arenas in which when a group enters, there will be total FFA.
Corpse Camping doesn't happen very often, and when it does just report to a GM and that player won't be bothering you for a while.The honor system and battlegrounds will soon add even more incentive to PvP.

Leveling does in fact take effort, though perhaps not as much as Lineage 2.
The only reason that a person reached 54 that fast is that there are guilds in which people take shifts in playing a character.

The graphics are in the traditional Warcraft style, which differs from that of Lineage 2.
They are cartoonish and comic like, which may lead to some believing that they are "bad" but in truth they are highend in their catagory.

BTW Blizzard did learn from Diablo II.
There is only 1 loading point, and that is between Kalimdor and Azeroth/Lorderoan.
Range weapons will not own melee players as there is a min/max range and a cooldown if you are not a hunter(who have lower hp and will probably die if closed in by an ok melee pvper).

[Spoon-O-Death]

I didnt think Gms could stop corpse camping, the camper could easily say hes helping his friend power-quest through a low lvl area or be questing by himself, and corpse camping sucks yes, but it is a tactic even if it isnt a very honourble one. and I thought they scrapped the honour system?

[Diskordjah]

honour system is scrapped.

ganking will continue despite new battlegrounds I think. high level players arent hanging around in lowest possible contested areas cause they have quests there or cause real competition are there. no, theyre there for the gank. course, you can go to PvE server and be done with it...

[Reign of Kalos]

That's the one thing that pisses me off on the PvP servers. Realistic yes, but hardly fair.

[Spoon-O-Death]

Its not like you cant pvp on a pve server. and FYI dont duel against another faction on a pvp server, you will be ganked, hard.

[kooaznboi1088]

didn't they get rid of dishonor points but kept the honor points?

[SnapSlav]

It sounds like you expect WoW to be an exact duplicate of Lineage 2 only you want addtional perks.
To a degree, yes. Because many of Blizz's staff stated that as their first MMORPG, they wanted to take as many of the good points of other renouned titles and enhance them, I thought I'd see some of the things I liked in WoW. I expected no "additional" perks, other than an entirely different world and different characters.

The economy in WoW focuses on Gold/Silver/Copper, with the trade values in gold not above 1000 unlike Lineage 2. Also, WoW does in fact have stuff you are looking for. Auction House is a way to sell stuff you have aquired for more than the vendor buys it for.
And there are soulbound items that cannnot be traded if you have worn them, avoiding the "soj economy" and other diseases that plauged Diablo II.
I'm glad to hear of limiters on such warped economies as in D2. But one thing I noticed while observing players was their focus on Gold. They wanted little or nothing to do with silver, and never considered copper as currency. For chars lvl 20 and up, how cosistent might this be? I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, as even Lineage has a sort of player-excersized ban on items. Usually it's 'the best, and nothing lower', which looks to be the case w/ Gold. I'm aware that players don't initially get access to gold until certain points, whether determined by lvl or how much they earn or whatnot, but it seems players like getting off of copper and silver ASAP, and it might leave noobs who don't know how to do so as easily in the dust...

Leveling does in fact take effort, though perhaps not as much as Lineage 2.
The only reason that a person reached 54 that fast is that there are guilds in which people take shifts in playing a character.
Well, Lineage has become renouned by players that cross over multiple MMORPGs as a game that lvls hard. That aside, I rather trust the player when he explained his Druid to me, that he was part of no such guild, and all the lvling that was done had been performed by none other than he. When I explained his case, I wasn't wondering how he did it, since he already explained it to me. I was just baffled that it seemed so easy. I only hope it's not the case anymore, since that was back during the final weeks of the Beta...

The graphics are in the traditional Warcraft style, which differs from that of Lineage 2.
They are cartoonish and comic like, which may lead to some believing that they are "bad" but in truth they are highend in their catagory.
I actually remembered this debate from a thread a few months back by a member who thought Warhammer would beat out WoW because of graphics alone. Heh, he musta been shocked to learn that the project backed down in order to avoid competition with WoW... Anywho, I'm not concered by the stylistic or "cartoonish" approach of WoW. It's really hard to describe exactly what I see missing, I just see it.

I rather like hearing about a minimum range for Bow attacks, as L2 doesn't even have that, it just takes longer. I should hope that the class in the game that emphasizes Bow use would have specialistic skills. A question though, do Rogues (I think that's the class) have such skills? Or are they backstabbing dagger-esque only?

[Kingcrazygenius]

Rogues aren't the bowyers of WoW, Rangers are. Rogues are like D2 Assassins minus some of the psychic powers. I imagine Rangers do have skills that accentualize their ranged attack abilities.

[WarDragon]

Rogues aren't the bowyers of WoW, Rangers are. Rogues are like D2 Assassins minus some of the psychic powers. I imagine Rangers do have skills that accentualize their ranged attack abilities.
What is this "Ranger" of which you speak, King? I've heard of a "Hunter" that's good with ranged weapons, but "Ranger" must be new... :g tongue:

[Nephalim]

Rogues actually rely very little on range. If you pull with a ranged weapon you sacrifice the chance to use any much more powerful stealth abilities. Hunters, on the other hand, have an entire talent tab devoted entirely to range. But that can be bows, guns, or crossbows.

[Kingcrazygenius]

What is this "Ranger" of which you speak, King? I've heard of a "Hunter" that's good with ranged weapons, but "Ranger" must be new... :g tongue:

I can ban you. :g tongue:

[IlidanStormrage]

Wow, I can't wait until the patch where they add the "Ranger" class :P

Anyway, I was under the influence (and I am fairly certain of this) that the honor system was still going to be implimented...

[Nephalim]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA, whoa

King's a mod? When did this happen?

[kooaznboi1088]

Snapslav: Rogues can use bows, guns, throwing objects, maces, swords, daggers, fist weapons.

[Nephalim]

I lack ambition, so you'll have to forgive me for not diligently reading the entire thread, and if what I'm about to say is a repetition of earlier sentiments.

First off, death is a hassle and an annoyance. Players do not go gently into that dark night. The Spirit Healer's penalty is a 25% item durability loss (equipped or otherwise, which becomes especially annoying because the "repair all" option from vendors only repairs equipped items. Players above level 10 have resurrection sickness. A minute for every level above ten, until you hit twenty, when it becomes ten for the rest of the game. Res sickness essentially renders you 25% as effective as you once were. Should you seek out your corpse and res, you do so with 50% health, and if whatever killed you is nearby, you likely won't last long. Also, if it was a lengthy trip from the graveyard, the crowds of whatever you killed to get to what killed you may have respawned, which can become rather tedious rather quickly. Death may brook no permanent penalties, but the penalties that come with it are more than enough to encourage players to avoid it.

I understand that a lot of controversy surrounds World's PvP system and so I may not be the perfect person to comment on it, because I am one of those people who don't want interacting with other players to be the central part of the game, that's why I play for the most part on PvE servers, where the population tends to get stupid enough. Should a raid be on progress, the chat channels are filled with slander for everyone in the zone not involved, and I am thrilled that nothing is there to force me into an encounter I'm not in the mood for, save of course for peer pressure, which I've become rather fortified against. The tales I hear from PvP servers are encouraging me to stay where I am. High level chars are constantly ganking low level characters, and I hear that certain areas of Durotar are especially hazardous. I've played enough quests in contested areas to be very happy with my server choice. If I'm in the middle of a long and involved quest, I'm busy enough looking over my shoulder for wandering monsters, I hardly want to have to worry about players of exceptional levels killing me as I quest in enemy territory. Anyone who's done the Battle of Hillsbrad quests will know what I mean.

Alterac Valley sounds insanely fun, and when it comes out, I'll be glad to play there with high and low chars alike. But I'll know what's expected, and I will be there for PvP.

[kooaznboi1088]

Well neph, it sounds like you are forcing yourself to miss one of WoW's most prominant features and that is infact PvP.

WoW was designed so you can feel as if you are in the world itself. You are not some kind of 5star general who commands a million men and kills humans. You are now a lone warrior/priest/mage/rogue/warlock/whatever that lives in the land of Warcraft and occasional kills a human. You are a citizen of the Horde.

And if you are truly interested in roleplaying, you have to know that when a stupid, purple treehugger 20 levels lower then you goes in your site, you can kick his/her ass regardless if he/she doesn't want to be killed.
And you have to accept that it is realistic in the world of warcraft when one alliance comes to a horde member a conflict can result regardless if 1 party refuses.

IMHO PvP servers are the only servers that truly gives a taste of the World of Warcraft.

[Nephalim]

Well neph, it sounds like you are forcing yourself to miss one of WoW's most prominant features and that is infact PvP.I'm not forcing myself to, and likewise I'm not being forced to engage in PVP. When I want to, I do, and I have done raids. But I'm playing this game because I want to have fun, and as such, I'm going to do what I feel like, and getting dragged into fights I'm not interested in does not constitute that. If I was playing this game for realism, I'd object to spirit healers and hearthstones, and undead having to breathe, among a million other things.

This is just me, and this is personal taste. All I'm saying is I'm glad Blizzard caters to both philosophies, and that I don't find getting continuously killed by other characters as we pass on the road to be an enjoyable way to spend my afternoon. My interaction with other players is not how I measure my immersion into the world of warcraft. It never has been, and it never will be.

[SnapSlav]

because I am one of those people who don't want interacting with other players to be the central part of the game
That's a little odd... WoW is a MMORPG, the whole POINT is to interract with other players. Naturally one would assume it doesn't demand it of you, and leaves you the option of soloing to your heart's content, but still.

I think it's nice that they cator to both sides, but I dislike leaving one or the other out by separating servers. It leads to abuse. For example, in Diablo II, there were two kinds of servers that could be played on, Open and Closed. Open was supposed to be the same as Diablo, and was meant to encourage players to cheat and hack etc. in this part of the game alone, and was meant to isolate hacking. Closed was meant to be free of hacks and such. In a way, it worked, as one couldn't play on Open with anyone that played honestly; it just didn't happen. But in all other ways it failed its purpose. Since players usually played on Closed for the better gaming, the cheaters migrated, and brought new methods of cheating to Closed servers.

In the end, separated servers only served to damn the whole system. It'll come to be the same with WoW...

[Diskordjah]

no, the whole honor/dishonor system has been scrapped. nothing like it in there anymore. ganking runs rampant.

[Spoon-O-Death]

Well, Neph has got to be somewhere in the 40-60 range, and if he so chooses he can switch to a pvP server and completely dominate with his rogue/whatever. And UD breathing infinitley would be slightly imba for PvP, you could easily skulk around the bottom waiting for alliance to quest the surface, and BAM alliance is toast. and if you are so set on infinite breath, play/group a warlock.

[Nephalim]

Well, I would disagree that the whole point is to interact with others, because I keep my interaction with others limited and I'm having a ball. In my experience, if you find yourself completely immersed in the virtual world, and giving in to the illusion that you're actually there, the quickest way to remind yourself that it's just a game is to talk to another player.