LOTR refrences in Warcraft

[Aj Windshadow]

There are many refrences of lotr in warcraft such as Tree Ents and Treants
or the eye of Sargeras and Eye of Sauroman (sp?).
There are a few others too. Have you noticed any?

[Diskordjah]

Saroman. Sauron. two different entities. and those Eyes are completely different in function and form, only namewise alike.

and the ents are more like the ancients, really.

[disjuku]

They are both huge fantacy worlds, its bound to happen, but thats all it is, just the fact taht they are fantacy and that is acceptable fantacy :/

[Romanov77]

They are both huge fantacy worlds, its bound to happen, but thats all it is, just the fact taht they are fantacy and that is acceptable fantacy :/

I think its "fantaSy" :g wink:

[disjuku]

in MY fantaCy world, I can spell however I wanna :D

[yunn]

There are only treants or Ents, no Tree Ents. Living sentient trees are popular in fantacy-- I mean fantasy worlds. And it's Sauron and Saruman, please. No Sauronman, or Soraman, or Saurusmon, or Digimon, or Pikachu.

Anyway, the Eye of Sargeras and the Eye of Sauron are completely different. The Eye of Sargeras is an artifact, if I'm not mistaken. The Eye of Sauron, it seems is this big flaming magical eye on top of THAT tower in Mordor. Forgot the name. Barad-dur? Or is that something else? Perhaps I shall read LOTR for the third time. It's been a while... anyway I'm drifting away. When I read LOTR, it seems that the Eye of Sauron was a metaphorical entity, I never imagined it was a big tangible flaming eye as portrayed in the movie.

[Aj Windshadow]

Ok guess they aren't related,what about Raiders or other refrences related to real world ?

[ArPharazon]

Yes, there are Lotr/Tolkien references in Warcraft. You just have to look deeper. Many races in the Warcraft-world are direct references from Tolkien. The race of Orcs was created by Tolkien, it's only earlier basis being the Orca (killer-whale) and (although very, very, vague) the Goblin from earlier fantasy stories. Warcraft (and Morrowind, and other games) took over Tolkien's Orcs, but gave them a kinder nature and a green colour, while Tolkien's Orcs were black.

Elves originate from Norse mythology, but over the years have degraded into the small magical beings normally known as fairies or pixies. Tolkien brought them back, and gave them a much richer culture. Warcraft adapted this. Also, the Norse mythology had its own distinction between Light/High Elves and Dark Elves, where the Dark Elf was very ugly, and some fantasy stories/games took over this concept, in the form of the Drow. Tolkien, however, made his own distinction, in which both were part of the same race, the High Elves being called thus because they lived in Valinor, land of the Gods, at one point. Warcraft came closer to Tolkien's adaption, with the Dark Elf/Nightelf being a race as beautiful, if not more beautiful, than the High Elves.

Ents/treants/ancients fully originate from Tolkien as far as I know.

Beyond the simple fact of races and cultures, I have also recognized story-elements in the Warcraft-story that originate from Lotr and the Silmarillion. For example, the Burning Legion.

In Warcraft, we have the uber-race, the Titans, and its most potent warrior, Sargeras, who gets corrupted, forms a legion of evil, and attacks the world of the Elves. After a great war, in which he was somewhat succesful, Sargeras loses, dies at a later point, and his greatest minions take control of the Legion, to make another assault against Azeroth. This one is again succesful, the Burning Legion swarms over the land, is practically unstoppable... but the leader makes a huge mistake, perishes, and the invasion ends.

In Tolkien's story, we have the uber-race, the Gods, the Valar. One of their most powerful members, Melkors, is corrupted, and forms the foundations of Evil in the world. He creates a huge army of Evil, constructed from Orcs, Balrogs, etc. He attacks the civilization of Elves. He is succesful, but by a powerful intervention of the Valar he is defeated, his body is destroyed, and his spirit banished. His greatest minion, Sauron, takes over the army of Evil, and again attacks the world of Elves and Men. His greatest tool of victory is also his greatest weakness and mistake, for the Ring is destroyed, Sauron perishes, and the war ends.

Am I the only one who sees the resemblance?

Also, in littler detail, I'm pretty sure there are many more references in Warcraft to Tolkien's world. You just have to look deeper than a coincedental occurence of an Eye :g wink:

[Raistlin Majere]

The Valar are not gods. Humans refer to them as gods, but they are actually just Uber-Powerful Spirits.

I remember reading about treants in an older fantasy too.

*goes back to research*

[ArPharazon]

The Valar are not gods. Humans refer to them as gods, but they are actually just Uber-Powerful Spirits.

I remember reading about treants in an older fantasy too.

*goes back to research*

I know, I know... I'm a member of the Valarguild, so I'd be very stupid not to know that. I just added that god-thingy as a recognition for those who have less knowledge of Tolkien.

Treants in an older fantasy? I wasn't sure about that. If you can find that story, I would love to hear/read it.

[yunn]

Tolkien is the father of all fantasy stories... :smug:

Not to say that the concept of fantasy stories is created by him, but you know what I mean.

[Kingcrazygenius]

True mythology transcends Tolkein.

[Raistlin Majere]

Treants in an older fantasy? I wasn't sure about that. If you can find that story, I would love to hear/read it.
I remember reading something that was 20 years olfer that LOTR's that mentiuoned something like Treants in the book. It was ages ago, maybe 10 years ago... :y-mm:

I have moved alot, so seaching will be hard, but I'll try.


Sme people don't realize that there was fantasy before tolkien. Tolkien just gave it a huge supercharger and a base for newer fantasy novels.

[Lord Kil'jaeden]

If someone is interested by the Middle Earth , the most complete source of infos about mostly everything myths/characters/storyline/etc... you can find is this one (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/).

[yunn]

Sme people don't realize that there was fantasy before tolkien. Tolkien just gave it a huge supercharger and a base for newer fantasy novels.=Tolkien is the father of all fantasy stories... :smug:

:smug: That's what I meant.

[IlidanStormrage]

Anduin is a waterfall (I think...) in LotR, Anduin Lothar is a knight. Lots of resemblances between the two really ^_^

[SuRReAL OrC]

I think Anduin is a river......but I'm not sure.

[yunn]

I've always wondered about trolls in Warcraft though... they don't seem to resemble any other fantasy worlds' trolls. Usually trolls are big huge dudes that carry clubs or hide under bridges and prey on the unsuspecting. I believe that in those other worlds, trolls also cannot be killed by anything except fire. And/or acid... not sure.

[Bartuc the 1st]

I would not be suprised
blizzard always takes references from other things like when you click on a unit or cheats
"I SEE DEAD PEOPLE"
and so on

[Romanov77]

The Anduin is The Great River...

Plus: Tol Barad----Tol Ellessar

[yunn]

Khazad'dum, Khaz Modan?

[Diskordjah]

well, the original trolls were of scandinavian mythos. though theyre quite unlike WC trolls as well, varying from small and ugly to (very) big and ugly. their manners resembled those of humans, and they had their own kingdom in the deep, dark woods. not as much "evil" though. at least not by fantasy standards.

[Reign of Kalos]

well, the original trolls were of scandinavian mythos. though theyre quite unlike WC trolls as well, varying from small and ugly to (very) big and ugly. their manners resembled those of humans, and they had their own kingdom in the deep, dark woods. not as much "evil" though. at least not by fantasy standards.
What were thier eating habits like then? I mean, were they meat eaters? Would they have been fond of the odd human?

[deadhand13]

Oh, the odd litle $h!+ that wandered away from town, a few live-stock. Meat basically, but Diskordjah would know better then me.... (WELL HE LIVES IN SWEDEN!)

[Diskordjah]

some would indeed cook a human.

[Kingcrazygenius]

Trolls ate goats, but as long as the goat had a bigger brother he was safe.

[Reign of Kalos]

Trolls ate goats, but as long as the goat had a bigger brother he was safe.Haha! Clever reference to those billy goats...

[pbot]

I think a better question to ask would be "What fantasy series is NOT inspired by Tolkien?"

[Kingcrazygenius]

Star Wars :cheeky:

[yunn]

Star Wars :cheeky:
No sir, Ewoks = Hobbits! :lol:

[SuRReAL OrC]

I've always wondered about trolls in Warcraft though... they don't seem to resemble any other fantasy worlds' trolls. Usually trolls are big huge dudes that carry clubs or hide under bridges and prey on the unsuspecting. I believe that in those other worlds, trolls also cannot be killed by anything except fire. And/or acid... not sure.

Ever played Baldur's Gate 2 for PS2?

[Raistlin Majere]

I think a better question to ask would be "What fantasy series is NOT inspired by Tolkien?"
the Sword of Truth series.

more later. I have homework.

[Lord Kil'jaeden]

Chretien de Troyes Arthur fantasy works are not inspired by Tolkien.
The same for the Illiad and Odyssey fantasy works of Homer .
:)

[ArPharazon]

I remember reading once, that those trolls liked switching human babies with their own babies. Or I could be confused...

Anyway, is there any connection/similarity/inspiration between Tolkien and Discworld? I haven't read much of Discworld (just a few pages) but I played one of the games, and have a few friends who are Discworld-fans. And I'm not quite sure if they're sharing elements.

[SuRReAL OrC]

Arph, I'm readin' the Silmarillion, and I'm at the part with Ar'Pharazon in it. :)

[ArPharazon]

Arph, I'm readin' the Silmarillion, and I'm at the part with Ar'Pharazon in it. :)

Nice. I hope you're not disappointed, I liked the book very much myself. And I hope you're not going to trash me for Pharazon's behavior :lol:

[Romanov77]

Nice. I hope you're not disappointed, I liked the book very much myself. And I hope you're not going to trash me for Pharazon's behavior :lol:


Pharazon was surey with no doubt the worst Numenorean "Tar"...

My favorite remains Tar Meneldur

[SuRReAL OrC]

Nice. I hope you're not disappointed, I liked the book very much myself. And I hope you're not going to trash me for Pharazon's behavior :lol:

Yeah, talk about jerkass. But I guess it's really cause of Sauron, right? The book is great so far. I'm on the last part; Of the Rings of Power.

My favourite character is Feanor.

[BornIn1142]

Well, he was a bastard too.
Come to think of it, there were a lot of people like that in the Sil...

[Clicks]

The reason that so many fantasy series are inspired by Tolkiens work is simply because Tolkien wrote his chronicles of middle-earth by borrowing ideas from hundreds of other fantasy stories.

In laymans terms, that means that Tolkien took a brick from every house and built one unique house. From then on whenever people looked at any other house, they would see the bricks used in Tolkiens work and therefore relate it back to his unique house. (Wow, I think I just made that even more confusing)

[maddman75]

I'm pretty sure the lineage goes Tolkien -> Dungeons & Dragons -> Warcraft.

In Tolkien, the ancient tree-herds are called Ents. Similar creatures were called Ents in the early versions of D&D, until the Tolkien estate threatened to sue them over the use of the term (as well as wargs, hobbits, and a couple others). So we have Treant in D&D. The same idea is used in Warcraft as the Ancients.

Warcraft Orcs are quite a bit different than Tolkien orcs IMO. Where Warcraft orcs are spiritual people with a strong sense of honor and valor, if easily led astray by promises of power from demons, Tolkien's orcs were cowardly, craven, cruel, and altogether irredemable. Indeed they were once elves that were tortured and twisted by the Dark Lord until they became the brutes that middle-earth knows.

The elves are pretty similar, even to similarities between the elves of (IIRC) Dalaron and those of Rivendell and the Night Elves to the elves of Lorien. The Raiders are a reference as well, as goblins often rode to battle on giant wolves, or Wargs. The Dwarves of Warcraft seem to have a bit of an experimental streak, much like the gnomes of some D&D settings while still retaining the warrior craftsman feel of Tolkien dwarves.

Fantasy is a continual ripping off and reimagining of previous sources. Stories of brave warriors, magic, and dragons go back to pre-history. Warcraft is only the latest in this proud heritage.

Well, that's all my geek-points for now :)

[SuRReAL OrC]

Tolkein's orcs came from Beowulf, I believe something like that. It might have been the Finnish Edda, though. Anyway, his orcs were inspired by the orcas, I think they were called, otherly known as 'walking corpses'.

[deadhand13]

How can you sue over a species of creatures used in a story? That's like Blizzard sueing Sierra for using humans in their games. Wait Sierra is dead.....

[yunn]

How can you sue over a species of creatures used in a story? That's like Blizzard sueing Sierra for using humans in their games. Wait Sierra is dead.....
That's a bad basis of comparison. Humans exist, whereas Ents don't. I think.

[deadhand13]

Same idea though. You can't sue someone for using a species (like ents or treants) in another story.

[yunn]

Not the same idea. Humans exist, nobody can claim ownership over the concept of humans whereas Ents were a creation of the imagination, and if it was copyrighted, then probably they could sue.

Though... Ents might exist in real life...

[Kingcrazygenius]

Well in Warcraft they were called Treants so hahaha. I like Warcraft Treants more than Tolkein Ents anyways.

[Diskordjah]

Tolkein's orcs came from Beowulf, I believe something like that. It might have been the Finnish Edda, though. Anyway, his orcs were inspired by the orcas, I think they were called, otherly known as 'walking corpses'.

there's no finnish Edda. The Edda was written by Snorri, an Icelandic bard.

[kosircell77]

off subject heres some warcraft III-to ancient mythology referencees.
-Prince Arthas and Uther (Prince Arthur's father was named uther)
-Tauren=Minutaur (theirs too much resembalence to the minutaur)
-and i thought of these off the top of my head in about 3 mins. bye bye

[darksideslayer]

How can you sue over a species of creatures used in a story? That's like Blizzard sueing Sierra for using humans in their games. Wait Sierra is dead.....

Is this true??? I didn't know... Did Blizzard buy it (Sierra, of course)???

[deadhand13]

Yes sierra is gone (along with impressions studio). Vivendi Universal (who also owns blizzard) bough them.

[Raistlin Majere]

Not the same idea. Humans exist, nobody can claim ownership over the concept of humans whereas Ents were a creation of the imagination, and if it was copyrighted, then probably they could sue.
It matters how close of a comparison the races are. one cannot sue over the presence of a Dragon, because Dragons are creatures of legend. Same with Elves. D&D elves and Tolkien elves are very different. Where as Tolkiens elves are immortal and seemingly superhuman, D&D elves have mortality, a -1 on consitution (health and strength, no way can the average elf outmuscle a human), and defined pointed ears. not to mention there are Half-elves. Halflings in Forgotten Realms are a complete rip off of Hobbits. Some Campaigns, Like DragonLance, have Kender to take place of the Theif class required for a party.

[SuRReAL OrC]

there's no finnish Edda. The Edda was written by Snorri, an Icelandic bard.

Ooops. :y-sealed: I couldn't remember if it was Finnish or Norwegien or Icelandic.

[deadhand13]

No Snorri was a pre-Canadian :g tongue:

[Divine_Pie.exe]

For all the LOTR nerds that think tolken made all of his books up by himself without the aid of any other references; you're wrong.

He based all of his stories off of Norse mythology. Reasons being:

1. In Norse mythology there are drawves, elves, and other various creatures that he uses.

2. He said so himself.

3. Norse has a really unique way of describing how the earth was formed.

4. Ymir is a kick ass name for the creator of the world.

[ArPharazon]

Let's post some on-topic, yet unrelated statements.

-Warcraft does not use just treants, they have at least some creeps called 'Corrupted Ents.' So, yes, the term Ent is used in Warcraft, for -of course- living trees. If the Tolkien estate wants to sue, they have a case.

-Yes, Orcs were based on some monster out of ancient mythology. That monster, however, is presumed to be based on the killer-whale. Or so I've read. At any rate, it was very unlike the Orcs used in Tolkien, and he has been largely confirmed to be the first one using them as we know them. It was his Orcs that have been used in Warcraft, Morrowind, etc. With a lot of changes, of course. Such as personality, honor, and color. Yes, color. Tolkien's Orcs were black, not green.

-While the concept of Elves and Dwarves was indeed taken from the Edda (Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish... whatever, Scandinavian), Tolkien gave them quite a few twists. Especially concerning the light/dark elf contrast, and Dwarvish alignment (if I recall, they, or most of them, were evil in the Edda). Concerning these and other differences, Warcraft clearly took the ideas from Tolkien, and not directly from the Edda.

-Somebody here said Starwars took the Ewoks from the Hobbits (in jest or no). While this may have been true, I saw a few stills from the Episode 3-trailer today... and in armor, those Ewoks looked a lot more like the Orcish army :lol:

While a lot of this I have already said in my first post in this thread, the discussions seem to ignore my previous statements, hopefully because I made them so early in this thread. Therefore I repeat them here again.

[Kingcrazygenius]

And nobody cares in the least. The term 'corrupted ent' does not exist outside the World Editor for one thing. The Warcraft elves have about three things in common with Tolkein elves, tallness, archerness, and magicness. The rest of it is borrowed in bits in pieces from various other myths.

Furthermore Lord of the Rings and all things associated with it are boring as the boring part of hell and as stupid as my sister. And while I'm on the subject star wars really sucks too.

[yunn]

-Somebody here said Starwars took the Ewoks from the Hobbits (in jest or no). While this may have been true, I saw a few stills from the Episode 3-trailer today... and in armor, those Ewoks looked a lot more like the Orcish army :lol: That would be me. In jest.

EWOKS ARE IN EPISODE THREE?! WEARING ARMOUR? I can't even decide if that's good or bad. I played Battlefront last night and shot them and threw bombs at them. Though... I was playing Rebel...

[Diskordjah]

Ewoks piss me off.

[perfectgamer911]

They're fun to blow up with battlefront.

*nanananananaaa, super ewok*

[ArPharazon]

And nobody cares in the least. The term 'corrupted ent' does not exist outside the World Editor for one thing. The Warcraft elves have about three things in common with Tolkein elves, tallness, archerness, and magicness. The rest of it is borrowed in bits in pieces from various other myths.

Furthermore Lord of the Rings and all things associated with it are boring as the boring part of hell and as stupid as my sister. And while I'm on the subject star wars really sucks too.

First part: Well, I have seen corrupted ents in-game. The campaigns at least, but also some normal maps.

Second part: I shall not even comment on that. The only thing you have shown here is that you are clearly more stupid than your sister.

[H4Sh4D]

well for those who said Star wars isn't inspired by Tolkien: doesn't Aragorns sword anduril doesn't that look a bit too familiar with the jedi laser swords for being a coincidence? :y-wink3:

[Kingcrazygenius]

So you're allowed to have an opinion but I am not Arphy? Such fascism is not welcome here.

[WarDragon]

Actually, the creeps you refer to are quite clearly termed "Corrupted Treants" in-game. Check if you don't believe us.

[ArPharazon]

So you're allowed to have an opinion but I am not Arphy? Such fascism is not welcome here.

Sure, you're allowed to have an opinion. I just wish you'd give a few concrete arguments with it. Just saying the most famous fantasy story of the twentieth century is boring and stupid, without any reasons to back it up, isn't very contributive.

Actually, the creeps you refer to are quite clearly termed "Corrupted Treants" in-game. Check if you don't believe us.

Really? I could have sworn... oh well, I plan to replay the campaigns anyway, in the nearby future... you're probably right, I'll check.

[Kingcrazygenius]

Sure, you're allowed to have an opinion. I just wish you'd give a few concrete arguments with it. Just saying the most famous fantasy story of the twentieth century is boring and stupid, without any reasons to back it up, isn't very contributive.

I'd say my reasonings are pretty self-explanitory. I found it boring, I didn't like it, I felt no desire to finish it. I don't need concrete arguements because it is an opinion. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to believe me for any reason whatsoever.

And I don't appreciate your derogratory comments concerning my intelligence. I have proved numerous times that I'm very intelligent. You on the otherhand haven't done much of anything.

[Divine_Pie.exe]

Corrupted Treants are cleverly hidden in the unused tileset 'fel wood'.

The first star wars movie was excellent, and the ation scenes are good in all the other ones. But Episode 1 & 2 were extremeley boring (excluding the yoda fight and the grand prix had some pretty cool sfx and atleast made the movie worth 2 bucks).

[perfectgamer911]

another resemblence between Warcraft and the Norse mythology, is the world tree
warcraft world tree: Nordrassil
NM world tree: Yggdrasil

[Aj Windshadow]

This has gone way to out of hand....
And contributing to that I wanna ask
There was a game called Battle Realms I'm not sure whether it was released before WC3 or not but WC3 pretty much has the same new things it tried to include like how elevation matters and 3d and cool animations.
Since I only have read its previews, I am not 100% sure but it was thought out before wc3 that I'm sure of.
Has anyone played it, your opinions?

[Reign of Kalos]

Corrupted Treants are cleverly hidden in the unused tileset 'fel wood'.

The first star wars movie was excellent, and the ation scenes are good in all the other ones. But Episode 1 & 2 were extremeley boring (excluding the yoda fight and the grand prix had some pretty cool sfx and atleast made the movie worth 2 bucks).
Unused? What do you mean? That tileset was used in both the campaign and multiplayer maps, check the listings yourself if you don't believe me. There was at least two custom maps in roc that came with the game. Far from unutilised.

[WarBane]

well, the original trolls were of scandinavian mythos. though theyre quite unlike WC trolls as well, varying from small and ugly to (very) big and ugly. their manners resembled those of humans, and they had their own kingdom in the deep, dark woods. not as much "evil" though. at least not by fantasy standards.
Not always in the deep dark woods. Think of "Hall of the Mountain King".

[LordOfFire]

If you ever read the LOTR books then you would see that there are similar place names, not only in warcraft III, I can't think of any right now because I read the book like last year.

[Tommi]

Some references I've noticed:

Tol Barad = Island Fortress in Sindarin
Khaz Modan -> Khaz comes from Khazâd (Dwarves in Khuzdûl)
Thane = King in Khuzdûl (and old English, too)

[Darktyl]

another resemblence between Warcraft and the Norse mythology, is the world tree
warcraft world tree: Nordrassil
NM world tree: Yggdrasil


Isn't the new world tree in WoW also call Yggdrasil??

[Reign of Kalos]

No, the name of the new, and slowing becoming corrupted, world tree is Teldrassil.

[neiana]

This has gone way to out of hand....
And contributing to that I wanna ask
There was a game called Battle Realms I'm not sure whether it was released before WC3 or not but WC3 pretty much has the same new things it tried to include like how elevation matters and 3d and cool animations.
Since I only have read its previews, I am not 100% sure but it was thought out before wc3 that I'm sure of.
Has anyone played it, your opinions?


It was out long before Warcraft 3. The game actually introduces things that Warcraft 3 doesn't have, and many RTS games still do not. In this regard, Battle Realms is better - but there are enough quirks to make it not as good of a game. It is made(produced?) by Liquid - who coincidently - also did Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring AND the upcoming Dragonshard. How's that for actually staying on topic?


Now let's go with the original topic:

Lord of the Rings is based on numerous myths which largely include Norse but also include smaller pieces of others. Read Sil, then read the Bible ^_~

As for Warcraft v LotR. The _fact_ is, LotR set the standard for fantasy. Few of the ideas were unique when alone, but when all put together it blew peoples minds.

To further this, not since the Greek poets had a story been so truly epic either. I mean, you can pick your religious texts or stories of ancient times (such as the bible or gilgamesh, etc) but there was no truly epic story of any form after Homers time. So we can even suggest with strong reasoning that LotR set not only a standard for fantasy, but "raised the bar" - reinventing the idea of Epic Fantasy.

And to whoever, George R. R. Martin (along with Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, Anne Rice, Anne Mcaffrey, etc etc etc etc etc) would more than likely not have written their stories had Tolkien not written LotR. *IF* they had, then *THEY* would have been the father/mother of fantasy.

- N

[Tranquility]

Just a little thing, for a not so subtle reference, if you keep clicking on the human spell stealers, eventually they say "I stole your preciousss" :)