Preaching abstinence.What about it?!?

[Dark_psycherV28]

Well,watching MTV the other day i saw something about a sort of movement
called the Silver Ring Thing,which was all pro-abstinence and the like.What's the whole deal about it and abstinence from sex being promoted like that in the U.S.?And your opinions on it are welcome of course.

Me?Abstinence is a personal choice,but i am sooo against it.
I don't believe you should tell young people: Stay away till you get married!!!

[MrProAmerica]

Agreed. I wonder how many of those "wait till marriage" guys have sex in their wedding night and then think to themselves "what a dumb schmuck I was for waiting that long". IMHO, you should have sex when you enjoy it most, namely in your teens and twens. I honestly fail to see how having sex with only one person in your life will make the sex any better. (or your character for that matter)

[A-Thousand-Lies]

I agree with the both of you. I see no point in it. You should have sex when you are ready.

[BraveLiver]

I agree for the most part, but protection is crucial while you're in teens and tweens. How many people's lives have been ruined because a little baby popped out of the girlfriend's loins. Especially important where I live, because you need grade 12 diploma to get anywhere! A garbageman needs grade 12 diploma now.

[A-Thousand-Lies]

I agree for the most part, but protection is crucial while you're in teens and tweens. How many people's lives have been ruined because a little baby popped out of the girlfriend's loins. Especially important where I live, because you need grade 12 diploma to get anywhere! A garbageman needs grade 12 diploma now.

That's why I also believe in abortion.

[lordshadowbane]

The best birth control is self control.

[Canadian Tire Money]

STD's?


i think it comes down to the idea that if i was american, i wouldn't want to have sex with all those fatties either :)

[MrProAmerica]

STDs are overrated. A typical means of the US propaganda machine to push people into fear of the greatest thing in the world. Plus of course, there are means asides from abstinence to avoid STDs...

[A-Thousand-Lies]

STDs are overrated. A typical means of the US propaganda machine to push people into fear of the greatest thing in the world. Plus of course, there are means asides from abstinence to avoid STDs...

Not ****ing strangers would be a good start.

[Canadian Tire Money]

person1: man i got an STD!

Person2: awesome news, is it everything it is said to be?

Person1: nah, it just burns a little when i pee.

Person2: that is so lame. i expected blindness and limbs falling off.

Person1: yeah, STD's are SOOOO over rated!

[Warskull]

There is a movement by fundamentalists in the US for sex ed to teach only abstinence. Studies have shown the the best program is one that teaches safe sex with an emphasis on abstinence. However a lot of people find it hard to teach kids about sex and leave it at "Don't have sex" leaving them unprepared if they do decide to have sex.

[Desert_Eagle25]

Agreed. Sex STILL should be held off a little - it may sound corny - but building up a relationship and saving sex for last is actually a good thing, and makes makes a relationship stronger than it would have been if sex were involved.

[Warpblade]

You know, it's a remarkable double standard that exists in the US. Men that are sexually active are praised. Women that are sexually active are branded sluts.

That said, protection and common sense what people need to know. One can tell teenagers NOT to have sex, but if teenagers want to have sex, they'll have sex. However, teaching people how to do it safely - that IS something that has a bigger factor.

(for example, people need to learn that oral is NOT safe...)

[Raistlin Majere]

Me?Abstinence is a personal choice,but i am sooo against it.
against what, the show or abstinence?

[Diskordjah]

Agreed. Sex STILL should be held off a little - it may sound corny - but building up a relationship and saving sex for last is actually a good thing, and makes makes a relationship stronger than it would have been if sex were involved.

actually, my longest relationship was the one where me and the girl had drunken sex our first evening together. the relationships where we waited didnt turn out near as well.

[Canadian Tire Money]

actually, my longest relationship was the one where me and the girl had drunken sex our first evening together. the relationships where we waited didnt turn out near as well.


indeed. i find virgins are often too insecure to maintain a relationship with. . .

[A-Thousand-Lies]

Agreed. Sex STILL should be held off a little - it may sound corny - but building up a relationship and saving sex for last is actually a good thing, and makes makes a relationship stronger than it would have been if sex were involved.

Maybe that's why Ralf has been dating "Kate' for so long.

[Kingcrazygenius]

actually, my longest relationship was the one where me and the girl had drunken sex our first evening together. the relationships where we waited didnt turn out near as well.

Maybe sex is all girls like about you?

[Dark_psycherV28]

(Oh,I'm against abstinence)

I can understand that abstinence can be the choice of some couples as it can indeed strengthen a relation(postponing sex for too long however can cause other problems.Jerk away!?!?!?)
But i can't understand it when people start thinking of teaching it at school...They say like, ok we can teach them of how to be safe and all,but let's just tell them to stay away from it and be sure?

Have safe sex.Lots of it.mindblowing is ok.(And oral sex is a hell of a lot of fun) :bigclap:

[Laff]

That's why I also believe in abortion.

the reason you believe in it is the reason i am against it. if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex. live with your own consquences.

[BraveLiver]

That's why I also believe in abortion.

I'm pretty sure abortion is illegal where I live.

[Nio the Namless]

Agreed. I wonder how many of those "wait till marriage" guys have sex in their wedding night and then think to themselves "what a dumb schmuck I was for waiting that long". IMHO, you should have sex when you enjoy it most, namely in your teens and twens. I honestly fail to see how having sex with only one person in your life will make the sex any better. (or your character for that matter)
Maybe the whole deal isn't about better sex its about being commited to one person and not having thousands of diseases. Perhaps some people just want more out of life then sex

I won't mention marriage cause not everyone gets marrried But I am a strong believer in the whole thing. I don't give a f*** how many of you think it's lame

EDIT:
Besides there always foreplay

[Raistlin Majere]

I'm pretty sure abortion is illegal where I live.
I am not so sure, it their a website that can tell you if it is legal in your state.

I am quite sure clinics are run out of town here. Crap, there is not a Hooters less than 100 miles around.

[SaroDarksbane]

Abstinence? I'm a fan . . . err . . . proponent.

[Kingcrazygenius]

I can walk to the Hooters here. It'll take me 30-45 minutes, but hey.

Then if I had money for food I'd go to the Dairy Queen, which is closer.

[MrProAmerica]

Maybe the whole deal isn't about better sex its about being commited to one person and not having thousands of diseases. Perhaps some people just want more out of life then sex

I won't mention marriage cause not everyone gets marrried But I am a strong believer in the whole thing. I don't give a f*** how many of you think it's lame

EDIT:
Besides there always foreplay
First of all, I don't draw the line between oral sex, petting, touching and the ol' in-out, in-out. Sex is sex and sex isn't restricted to f***ing. So how do getting more out of life and having good sex exclude each other? I can't seem to draw the logic "I want to have a great life so I better not have too much sex with too many people"
And like I said, STDs are overrated. Just look around you: How many people you know have ever transmitted an STD? I bet it's none. Maybe some high school jerk who boasts about having had one but really never did. A simple "what did you do against it" will make him falter since he sure as hell answers "creams" or some stupid s**t, while "antibiotics" is the only possible answer here.
Someone above mentioned it already, there is an incredible double-standard concerning sex in the US, especially considering the gratuitous (sp?) display of violence on TV and in movies which surely is more harmful (and unnecessary for later in life). Seriously, if I had a choice between Steven Seagal breaking some guys neck with a coat hanger and Steven Seagal making a woman come with a coat hanger...ah, you get the point :y-evil:

[A-Thousand-Lies]

the reason you believe in it is the reason i am against it. if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex. live with your own consquences.

If you don't want to get food poisoning, don't eat.

If you don't want to get skin cancer, don't go outside.

If you don't want to get robbed, don't have any possessions.

[ScrubHuman2]

Personally, I think young people should be fully briefed on what sex entails and what consequences it carries with it, just like everything else they should be taught. You teach your kids money values and math, telling them that investment has many pros and its own cons. Sex should be no different.

It's unfortunate, though, that so few parents (in the US?) view sex as just sex. It can be viewed that way for isolated encounters, of course, but more often than not, it isn't "just sex" at all. Sex is about feeling good and recreation, but it's also about biological contact on a very intimate level and making kids.

In order to fully brief teeners on what they need to know about what it means to have children, you must let them take on really taking responsibility for a younger loved one, possibly a brother or a cousin. Let them enroll the kids, for example, or pay for an afternoon's pasttimes out of their own pockets. That way, they can very concretely realize the costs and consequences of having children, and hopefully circumvent any ill-informed actions.

In order to fully brief teeners about sex diseases, you should tell them about these diseases with no sugar coating. These are not children anymore, for god's sakes. They're going to go out into the world as adults in a very short amount of time. They need to know what things are like or they risk getting hurt on many different levels.

At the same time, it's pointless to tell people not to have sex. History shows that sexual urges are too strong to ignore. They're sublimated into weird behavior, released into illegal and poorly surpervised activites or turned into superficially acceptable but very disturbing perversions.

Of course, you should tell them about how strong these urges are and how strong they become. The fun part you don't need to teach. They'll learn to like it on their own terms.

I think teaching complete abstinence is self-defeating and ultimately doomed to failure. Teaching teeners enough info to make their own sound and sensible decisions based on other aspects of their upbringing is much better.

[Raistlin Majere]

At the same time, it's pointless to tell people not to have sex. History shows that sexual urges are too strong to ignore. They're sublimated into weird behavior, released into illegal and poorly surpervised activites or turned into superficially acceptable but very disturbing perversions.

Of course, you should tell them about how strong these urges are and how strong they become. The fun part you don't need to teach. They'll learn to like it on their own terms.
So, your saying that one must occasionally give into the urges? I honestly fail to see the connection with no sex and wierd perversions.

Truly, I do not get into sex or get involved with relationship involving lots of sex because I am simply not interested in it. Do I feel that I am missing out in life? Hell no. will I go on some mad killing spree because I surpressed those urges? doubt it. Its not like the Pon-far thing the Vulcans have where you die a violent death by ignoring the urges.

Just look around you: How many people you know have ever transmitted an STD?

I can name 10 off the top of my heard right now. not much, but around here there are more cases of inbreeding than STD's :g-sick: . mostly Herpies, not HIV. More than 900,000 people in the US have HIV and are not aware that they do. granted, some areas may have no cases around, or may seem that everone has them, but they are out there.

But yes, Teenagers should be educated about the risks.

[ScrubHuman2]

Rasitlin Majere:


So, your saying that one must occasionally give into the urges? I honestly fail to see the connection with no sex and wierd perversions.


Really? Well, this might be the main reason, I think:


Truly, I do not get into sex or get involved with relationship involving lots of sex because I am simply not interested in it.


Oooohkay. I truly hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but not being interested in sex is only normal if you're a child, a eunuch, or something similar. Please take my word for it that the vast majority of humanity is interested in sex to a greater or lesser degree. Or you can keep on denying. Your call.


Do I feel that I am missing out in life? Hell no. will I go on some mad killing spree because I surpressed those urges? doubt it. Its not like the Pon-far thing the Vulcans have where you die a violent death by ignoring the urges.


I said perversions, not homicidal insanity. Obsessing about women's panties to the exclusion of sex is a relatively mild mostly unassuming perversion, but according to the latest gossip and scientific papers, it's still a perversion.

[lordshadowbane]

Wow the world has really changed. Prolly some 100 yrs ago nobody was interested in sex only to have a family. Now its everything. NE ways sex is just like burning ur hand in the fireplace. Are u gonna let them find out stuff on there own? Like letting them play in the fireplace so they can learn whut not to do? No u set examples. Scrub everyones interested in it? Yea Im sure they are but that doesnt mean no self control. Im sure I have a lot of urges like that but I resisted. Im still alive Im not regretting it. And it wasnt very painful. Sex is like playing in the fire. Sure the first time ur fine. U keep doing it until ur burned. Dont play in the fire. U'll get burned.
I remember a poll sometime in sex ed saying that 90% of the ppl regretted havin underage sex when they do it with there spouse.

[Warpblade]

People are no less interested - it's just more accepted to be open about it. A few years ago I had a teacher who told us that when she was pregnant with her first child, the topic was taboo because it implied the sex act - they had lots of fancy workarounds for the word pregnant.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Teenagers will have sex. I personally don't want to at my age - I don't want to risk children yet, so masturbating is fine with me.

Oh yes, why is it that so many people are so scared of talking about masturbation? Almost all guys and the majority of girls do it by the time they're adults, yet most people are scared to say it.

[ScrubHuman2]

lordshadowbane:


Scrub everyones interested in it? Yea Im sure they are but that doesnt mean no self control. Im sure I have a lot of urges like that but I resisted. Im still alive Im not regretting it. And it wasnt very painful.


I didn't say that you should have sex when you feel like it. Neither was I in favor of children having intercourse at a young age. I said that teaching complete abstinence as a way to make a majority of young people not have sex is self-defeating, and all my experience shows this to be wholly true. I've not seen a population of teeners taught just abstinence and sex facts to resist their natural urges. Unless some new and fantastic way to surpress sex urges comes out, young people as a population will engage in sexual activity in their teens.

Maybe many teeners regret having intercourse. Probably they do, but it doesn't erase the fact that the program they took was ineffective. What you need to do is to drive home the consequences of having sex very concretely and very directly. These people's minds are clouded with hormonal instincts. They aren't thinking straight. You have to be blunt and you have to be forceful.

Mastubation, by the way, is noted to be effective for dealing with sex urges, but it does count as a sex act, and some groups believe that it's a perversion.

[UltraDavid]

Wow the world has really changed. Prolly some 100 yrs ago nobody was interested in sex only to have a family. Now its everything. NE ways sex is just like burning ur hand in the fireplace. Are u gonna let them find out stuff on there own? Like letting them play in the fireplace so they can learn whut not to do? No u set examples. Scrub everyones interested in it? Yea Im sure they are but that doesnt mean no self control. Im sure I have a lot of urges like that but I resisted. Im still alive Im not regretting it. And it wasnt very painful. Sex is like playing in the fire. Sure the first time ur fine. U keep doing it until ur burned. Dont play in the fire. U'll get burned.

Yeah, sex is just like fire. Delicious, hot, incredible, hot, wonderfully delicious fire that will have no negative physical consequences whatsoever the vast, vast majority of the time. Oooh, watch out, if your wang gets near a girl you're gonna EXPLOOOODE!!! It's not true, man. It's just not true. I'm in college, and I'm in a frat, and I do a lot of girls and know a lot of guys who do a lot of girls and a lot of girls who do a lot of guys. How many of them have STDs? Zero! Stop worrying, cripes.

If your reason for not having sex is just because you're afraid of STDs, then unless you live in sub-Saharan Africa, you have a terrible reason for not having sex. I would hope that, if that is in fact your reason, you also never ride in a car or eat oysters or go outside when it's cold, because that's the only way you'd be consistent. If your reason is religious, that's perfectly fine. I can certainly understand that. But don't miss out on something like sex just because you hear that people get hurt from it all the time. There are some good ways to guard against getting hurt. For example, do not have sex with prostitutes! Do not have sex with someone who does not look healthy! Do not have sex without a condom! If you are a man, ask the woman if she takes birth control pills! If you are a woman, take birth control pills! Taking these precautions will virtually secure your safety. No, it won't 100% guarantee it. As with being alive, having sex entails some amount of risk, but not much risk if you do it right.

[undsputed1]

I'll just quietly add that a lot of the time, women can carry STD's and not even be aware of it.....until it shows up in problems later in life such as not being able to get pregnant. You can have sex 100 times in a year if you like, but it only takes one bad time to get some bumps for life. And the older you get, the more likely your going to find a woman who's been with more and more partners.

[ScrubHuman2]

UltraDavid:


Yeah, sex is just like fire. Delicious, hot, incredible, hot, wonderfully delicious fire that will have no negative physical consequences whatsoever the vast, vast majority of the time. Oooh, watch out, if your wang gets near a girl you're gonna EXPLOOOODE!!! It's not true, man. It's just not true. I'm in college, and I'm in a frat, and I do a lot of girls and know a lot of guys who do a lot of girls and a lot of girls who do a lot of guys. How many of them have STDs? Zero! Stop worrying, cripes.


undisputed1 is perfectly right. There are a host of diseases that can wreak havoc with your body with no one being the wiser, until the piper comes to collect later in life. And it's not like you can reverse this type of damage.

Just having a lot of sex partners and having sex earlier than maybe 17 or 18 definitely increases the risk a woman will contract cervical cancer later on.

The risk for becoming pregnant when using either a condom or a pill is so large that if the resulting condition were a deadly disease, having sex would probably be banned by the FDA. Of course, it's not a deadly disease, but one would think that having to provide for and take care of children is a life-changing event all the same.

I use my seatbelt when I drive. I tie my shoelaces tightly and securely. I check for lifeguards before swimming. I do stretches before excercising. I practice sex responsibly and safely. One hopes everyone knows what that means.

[mulratt]

And the older you get, the more likely your going to find a woman who's been with more and more partners.

That's why you go for virgins, innocent girls who dont look like they have experience and other perverse stuff.
:g puzzled

[UltraDavid]

UltraDavid:The risk for becoming pregnant when using either a condom or a pill is so large that if the resulting condition were a deadly disease, having sex would probably be banned by the FDA. Of course, it's not a deadly disease, but one would think that having to provide for and take care of children is a life-changing event all the same.

Done correctly, you don't have much to worry about. HIV failure rate in condoms is around 5-10%, and that number drops an incredible 10 to 20 times when people who are experienced with condoms are using them. HIV as you know is a virus, and as such is much much smaller and harder to protect against than the cells that comprise many other sexually transmitted diseases and male sperm. This means that protection from pregnancy or gonorrhea is much better than it is from HIV. The chance of getting a girl pregnant while she's on the pill and while you have a condom is an so low that basically, don't worry about it. Is there still a chance you'll get HIV? Sure, it's true. There is. But if you're experienced, there's very little chance anything will get through, and remember the vast vast majority of people in the countries we live in are not infected by it.

I use my seatbelt when I drive. I tie my shoelaces tightly and securely. I check for lifeguards before swimming. I do stretches before excercising. I practice sex responsibly and safely. One hopes everyone knows what that means.

Good to hear. I do the same, hence my recommendations for what to do before having sex. But it's foolish to forego sex completely just because there's a risk associated with it.

[ScrubHuman2]

UltraDavid:


Done correctly, you don't have much to worry about. HIV failure rate in condoms is around 5-10%, and that number drops an incredible 10 to 20 times when people who are experienced with condoms are using them.


Gakk! Choke. If I had that kind of a mortality rate, my license would be revoked for sure!


The chance of getting a girl pregnant while she's on the pill and while you have a condom is an so low that basically, don't worry about it.


The product sponsors and medical MDs tell you not to worry about it because pregnancy is, um, deemed "acceptable". If it were death instead of pregnancy, those measures would not be deemed adequate. Look up the risk of getting pregnant with pill and/or condom and compare it with the risk of death by airplane crash.


Is there still a chance you'll get HIV? Sure, it's true. There is. But if you're experienced, there's very little chance anything will get through, and remember the vast vast majority of people in the countries we live in are not infected by it.


Go visit DC or wherever they keep the AIDS memorial quilt.


Good to hear. I do the same, hence my recommendations for what to do before having sex. But it's foolish to forego sex completely just because there's a risk associated with it.


Sex is one thing. Promiscuity is another thing altogether.

[mulratt]

I'd only sleep with pro-choice girls, so that in the eventuality of a pregnancy, abortion is an option.

And what's with this condom experience ppl talk about? What's so complicated about putting it on that I havent noticed? Uh-uh. Am I going to die?

[UltraDavid]

I guess we just disagree. An experienced couple using a condom can cut the rate of failure in regards to HIV to an entirely acceptable .5-.25%. And condoms are even more effective against sperm and other cell-sized organisms like many sexually transmitted diseases. Also, just the pill alone is effective 97-99% of the time; when combined with a condom, pregnancy is extremely rare. And the high estimate of how many people in the US are infected by HIV is about 950,000, meaning that only about .3% of Americans have it. Granted, most of America is either monogamous or too young or old to have sex, so lets just randomly say that only 25% of Americans are the right age to have sex with more than one person, and that everyone infected with HIV is in that group, even though I doubt that those groups are so low or so inclusive. That still means that only just over 1% of that group is infected, so just under 99% of the people you might have sex with are clean. Personally, I think those are great odds, and I'd take them any day. You disagree, and that's fine, but I think it's foolish. I really don't like letting my life be ruled by fear.

[ScrubHuman2]

UltraDavid:

It's not about fear. It's about responsibility and taking action in what you believe in. I believe that I'm responsible for the sexual health of anyone I get intimate with. Therefore, I would not expose her to even a 0.00001% (no exaggeration) risk of contracting a deadly uncurable disease if I can help it. I would likewise not burden a woman with a pregnancy she was not prepared to accept. Three percent is altogether too high a risk for such an event, IMO. If I want a kid, I'll have one. If I don't, I'll practice some other form of sex. Having sex with a pill and a condom means that you are accepting a very real possibility of having to support a very real child. It's not fair to that child not to take this possibility seriously.

[lordshadowbane]

UltraDavid:

It's not about fear. It's about responsibility and taking action in what you believe in. I believe that I'm responsible for the sexual health of anyone I get intimate with. Therefore, I would not expose her to even a 0.00001% (no exaggeration) risk of contracting a deadly uncurable disease if I can help it. I would likewise not burden a woman with a pregnancy she was not prepared to accept. Three percent is altogether too high a risk for such an event, IMO. If I want a kid, I'll have one. If I don't, I'll practice some other form of sex. Having sex with a pill and a condom means that you are accepting a very real possibility of having to support a very real child. It's not fair to that child not to take this possibility seriously.
agh I have to agree with Scrub again. Wow scrub ur very intelligent today. Learn something new everyday. Wells you still have to take responsibilities for your actions. For all you know UltraDavid you might have HIV but not know about it. It might give u pleasure for a lil while but the consequences are for life.

[Nio the Namless]

First of all, I don't draw the line between oral sex, petting, touching and the ol' in-out, in-out. Sex is sex and sex isn't restricted to f***ing. So how do getting more out of life and having good sex exclude each other? I can't seem to draw the logic "I want to have a great life so I better not have too much sex with too many people"
And like I said, STDs are overrated. Just look around you: How many people you know have ever transmitted an STD? I bet it's none. Maybe some high school jerk who boasts about having had one but really never did. A simple "what did you do against it" will make him falter since he sure as hell answers "creams" or some stupid s**t, while "antibiotics" is the only possible answer here.

I draw the line at the point where babies are made, I didn't say you have to agree but I assume you can at least get people to accept that fact

Second, how many people do you know that tell you about there diseases. Most people don't know alot about my problems and they don't involve some embarrassing story

besides that wasn't really what I was getting at.


---I will come back but I like where the conversation is going

[Diskordjah]

I draw the line at the point where babies are made, I didn't say you have to agree but I assume you can at least get people to accept that fact

so you're sayin that Clinton actually didn't have sex with that woman?? :y-curtain

I must say that my definition is more like MrProAmerica on this one, if for no other reason than my lesbian friends would NEVER have sex otherwise. and believe you me, theyre big on the sex.

[DoomWaffle]

I believe in having sex only when you are married to the one you intend to spend eternity with.

Out of self respect but also out of respect for others.

It also shows great self control, who cares if I'm 'missing out' on something, personally, sleeping with everyone I like would make me feel worthless.

I thought we tried to seperate our race from animals? Animals are the ones who sleep around just for the sake of it (well, to impregnate), we build strong relationships.

I'd like to start a relationship knowing that I am 'pure', as well as my partner.

Feel free to bash my moral ass :y-crazy:

DoomWaffle

[Nio the Namless]

so you're sayin that Clinton actually didn't have sex with that woman?? :y-curtain

I must say that my definition is more like MrProAmerica on this one, if for no other reason than my lesbian friends would NEVER have sex otherwise. and believe you me, theyre big on the sex.
(reminds self that he should think about better words next time... cause words be good things!)

After taking a quick look at a dictionary for my own (and probally others benifit) the word I am looking for is intercourse.


anyway

So how do getting more out of life and having good sex exclude each other?
You do realise this is in fact two different things for me. Though not exclusive. As getting more out of life I would hope (for the love of "insert person of worship here") would include a much broader range of activities

ANYWAY-back to what I mean

I agree you can stop teenagers from aspects of foreplay, making out, and sex (considering its definition) but I think preventing (or at least limiting) intercourse is a bit more reasonable expectation.. considering its currently percentage.


Anyway-does anyone else think the definition of sex is extreemly broad?

[UltraDavid]

agh I have to agree with Scrub again. Wow scrub ur very intelligent today. Learn something new everyday. Wells you still have to take responsibilities for your actions. For all you know UltraDavid you might have HIV but not know about it. It might give u pleasure for a lil while but the consequences are for life.

It's true, anything is possible. For example, even if I wear a seatbelt next time I drive a car, and I'm completely sober, and the road is dry, and I don't talk on my cellphone or listen to music, and I obey all traffic laws, I could still get hit by someone else and die. Or, next time I play hockey, even if I wear all my gear, just play with friends, and don't play viciously, I could still fall and get paralyzed. Extremely unlikely? Yes. And yet we all take risks like that constantly. That's what you have to do, if you want to live. You have to take risks constantly, and recognize that you take them, but if they're acceptably miniscule you continue on with your life.

That's what I do with sex. I have it, but I take enough precautions so that it's highly, highly unlikely that I'll suffer any negative consequences. Is there still a chance I might? Yeah, there is. But it's acceptably miniscule so that I won't ever have to worry about it. Living your life in fear is no way to live.

[MrProAmerica]

Plus, waiting until marriage won't keep you from transmitting AIDS or other STDs. If you're future wife ever had oral sex or hell, even a blood transfusion, she might have an STD right there. Life is full of risks and same as in business, you need to take risks to gain a benefit. How much of a risk you are willing to take is everyone's personal game. Still, having had sex for 12 years now, I can tell everyone who waits that they're missing out...

[Nio the Namless]

Still, having had sex for 12 years now, I can tell everyone who waits that they're missing out...
Now what type of definition are we using for sex here? Intercourse? If so then perhaps some people are waiting for reasons other then risks. Which would be more of a personal thing. Though either way you should engaged in such activities with a person unless you have feeling for them and they are very strong.

I only worry about those that think of it as a recreational activity, because there is alot more to it then that. Alot more emotions involved

[UltraDavid]

I don't think it's correct to separate intercourse and every other type of sexual activity. To me, it's all sex. Anything more than making out that has sexual overtones to it, that's sex man.

If you won't have sex for religious reasons or something like that, then that's totally understandable. But what I don't get is how some people say they won't have sex because of religion and then go and get blowjobs all the time. How does that make sense? Your penis is inside a girl, dude. It's sex.

[Diskordjah]

Bloody Clintonians.

[MrProAmerica]

Now what type of definition are we using for sex here? Intercourse?
Why yes we are, and thank you for asking :y-wink3:

I only worry about those that think of it as a recreational activity, because there is alot more to it then that.
Like what? When you masturbate, you do it for recreation too, right? A lot of girls I know have sex for *gasp* fun. And I can certainly confirm that it is a lot of fun.

[Nio the Namless]

Like what? When you masturbate, you do it for recreation too, right? A lot of girls I know have sex for *gasp* fun. And I can certainly confirm that it is a lot of fun.
Now you are just twisting my words around.... *sigh*

I believe they call it casual sex. As in lots of one night stand sort of deals


2. I really don't need to know what your private life entails

[Diskordjah]

eh? theres nothing wrong with one-night stands at all as long as you're using adequate protection. which can be ignored if you and your partner know yourselves, as in getting regular check-ups at licensed physicians.

[MrProAmerica]

I believe they call it casual sex. As in lots of one night stand sort of deals
Uhm, no. As in "lots of sex in a steady relationship" deals. I didn't twist your words around at all. People can enjoy sex and still not be either

a) married or
b) sleeping-around whores.

I guess you are one of those pro-war or pro-Saddam types, right? Typical small-minded American black and white thinking.

[KaySeaGee]

I guess you are one of those pro-war or pro-Saddam types, right? Typical small-minded American black and white thinking.

That was rude and unneccesary, not to mention off-topic.

Typical small-minded European 'everyone is inferior to us' thinking.

[MrProAmerica]

No it wasn't. But I can't stand the fact that a lot of people here think that either you have sex in marriage and live happily ever after or you are a filthy whore, riddled with STDs and will go to hell. Sex is a natural thing, not a spiritual thing, otherwise animals wouldn't have it, would they now?

[KaySeaGee]

So animals aren't spiritual now? Bigot.

[MrProAmerica]

the...what?

[Nio the Namless]

No it wasn't. But I can't stand the fact that a lot of people here think that either you have sex in marriage and live happily ever after or you are a filthy whore, riddled with STDs and will go to hell. Sex is a natural thing, not a spiritual thing, otherwise animals wouldn't have it, would they now?
I didn't say you can't have sex outside of marriage, nor did I imply those that do are sluts or whores. I do not talk about sex often and most topics of the sort fly past be do to there indirect nature. I use words I know, how you use them is a whole different manner. I am not worried about the humping motions. You could make me brain dead and I could probally still do that. But there is an emotional aspect that is proven by science. The release of hormones that creates a sort of bond. And maybe I just think love should be involve. Of course it if foolish to think that everyone can find love on the fist try. For it is an indecribable feeling that can never be manufactured or outdone

I guess you are one of those pro-war or pro-Saddam types, right? Typical small-minded American black and white thinking.
****ING ASSHOLES LIKE YOU ARE THE PEOPLE THAT AT ONE POINT IN MY LIFE GOT ME TO ATTEMPT SUICIDE, DO YOU KNOW THAT?!???!!!!!!!

You also the kind of ****ing asshole that probally thinks I am a racist, chavanistic pig.

And I bet you think I am a homophobic? Right?

Well you would be WRONG!

Just because my views differ from yours does not make me small-minded, or narrow minded. My views are different. My very first comment was for the sole purpose of changing the direction of this conversation. From the hey do you think abstinence is stupid, huh, me to! I don't care if you don't believe in it, I just want you to respect it.

eh? theres nothing wrong with one-night stands at all as long as you're using adequate protection. which can be ignored if you and your partner know yourselves, as in getting regular check-ups at licensed physicians.
I am sure that didn't sound like what I meant. I mean more along the lines of tricking people to have sex with you, and then ditching them. Emotionally broken and what not.

Like I have said before, I suppore abstinence as a choice. But people are different and can not all follow the same path in life.

No it wasn't. But I can't stand the fact that a lot of people here think that either you have sex in marriage and live happily ever after or you are a filthy whore, riddled with STDs and will go to hell. Sex is a natural thing, not a spiritual thing, otherwise animals wouldn't have it, would they now?
You do know some animals mate for life? And some rescue each other? ANd some even have a fair range of emotions right? Humans tend to fall into the group of animals that either have 1 partern for "life" (until one dies... or soemthing like that) or 1 male gets all the action, while the rest got to keep it in there pants. (this is speaking out our ancestors... way way way back)

[lordshadowbane]

Well cheatin breaks up relationships...

[MrProAmerica]

Whoa Nio, cool your jets there hot-shot.

First off all: Suicide is for losers. If you tried and failed, you are probably an even bigger loser than if you had succeeded. What did you do? Take pills? Slit your arms? Jumping off a bridge or in front of a train, THAT's attempting suicide. What you did was probably just whining for attention you apparently don't seem to get from the other sex or anybody else for that matter. How old are you, like 15?

And for the record: I have about as much respect for abstinence as I have for other forms of religious fanatism like fasting or endless praying rituals. And you can bet, that doesn't make my life empty and devoid of meaning.

I mean more along the lines of tricking people to have sex with you, and then ditching them. Emotionally broken and what not.

And that's not black and white thinking? Man, you should check on what you write. Your words and thoughts in each of your posts are "abstinence" or "slut". You don't need to "trick" someone into having sex with you, some people do it because they want to, you know? And not all of them are men. I never lied about emotions to my sex and life partners and I never needed to. If you think that some kind of cheating is necessary for men to see some action I feel sorry for you. Even more than I do already as a matter of fact.

[Nio the Namless]

Whoa Nio, cool your jets there hot-shot.

First off all: Suicide is for losers. If you tried and failed, you are probably an even bigger loser than if you had succeeded. What did you do? Take pills? Slit your arms? Jumping off a bridge or in front of a train, THAT's attempting suicide. What you did was probably just whining for attention you apparently don't seem to get from the other sex or anybody else for that matter. How old are you, like 15?

And for the record: I have about as much respect for abstinence as I have for other forms of religious fanatism like fasting or endless praying rituals. And you can bet, that doesn't make my life empty and devoid of meaning.



And that's not black and white thinking? Man, you should check on what you write. Your words and thoughts in each of your posts are "abstinence" or "slut". You don't need to "trick" someone into having sex with you, some people do it because they want to, you know? And not all of them are men. I never lied about emotions to my sex and life partners and I never needed to. If you think that some kind of cheating is necessary for men to see some action I feel sorry for you. Even more than I do already as a matter of fact.
I hate you...

I never said you trick any person into having sex. I said I didn't want to know about your sexual life, is that so much to ask?

I am 20 years old, and really pissed right now, my blood pressure went up 30 notces(both top and bottom) since I read your post....

Do you even know what its like to want to die?

You keep putting words into my mouth. I never called any one a whore, and I double checked. Or a slut or what ever the **** you want. I said I think people should wait until marriage. Why? Beside from a physcological perspective that is the most rewarding place for it. At least staticits in my phycology book would agree. Deep meaningiful relationships cultivate a healthier life style. I just think certian things are better at making relationships work.....

Just because I think something is the "best" (and I use the term very loosely) doesn't mean I think the ulternative is wrong.

You do realise this is in fact two different things for me. Though not exclusive. As getting more out of life I would hope (for the love of "insert person of worship here") would include a much broader range of activities

I didn't say you were a whore for having sex, I said there should be more to life then sex. But not excluding sex.

LIKE I AM TRYING TO SAY BUT CLEARLY NEED TO REPEAT. I THINK SEXUAL INTERCOURSE IS AN EVENT BEST RESEARVED FOR LONG LASTING RELATIONSHIPS. NOT THAT PEOPLE THAT HAVING PROMISCUOUS SEX ARE BAD OR SLUTISH. PEOPLE THAT HAVE SEX IN THE SAME ROOM I AM TRYING TO SLEEP IN (and this happen to me) ARE A WE ON THE LOOSE SIDE!!!

If you think that some kind of cheating is necessary for men to see some action I feel sorry for you. Even more than I do already as a matter of fact
Again your putting words in my mouth and its really really irritating me. As if sex is soley definied as two people getting naked I probally get it more redularly then you

[undsputed1]

"How old are you, like 15?"

Hey......the same age as some of the girls you dated :) And even though it is legal in Germany, it still raises moral questions. Which is a key point. Firstly, animals and people are not the same. Sex is natural, but most humans would like to think there is something that differentiates us from the dog next store. Do animals feel guilty when they screw other animals in the same day.....No. Would you prefer your girlfriend feel guilty if she did the same....Yes.


Do you have to be married.....NO. But you should be responsible, as in protection and prevention of spreading disease or pregnancy. You shouldn't do it simply cause you have the need.....as if you were hungry. You shouldn't sleep with another man's wife. You shouldn't sleep with those who you can mentally or financially manipulate because your 15 years older and have a nice place.

It's not about saying sex is wrong really, but about saying that there are certain things that are good and desirable.......but obviously a lot of people can't control themselves and violate these basic rules out of desire.

[Kingcrazygenius]

Wow, MrProAmerica is a total asshole. Not even I'd call someone a loser for attempting suicide.

Now would he go to Dis with the heretics, of the seventh level for the blastphemers and violent?

[MrProAmerica]

Wow, MrProAmerica is a total asshole
I was waiting for someone to say these exact words. Fact of the matter is, that I say what I think. Generally, Americans seem to have problems with that since they are mostly superficial and prefer talking behind peoples backs instead of in there faces. I am not the only one who thinks that. Let me give you a little example: If your friend arrives three hours later than he wanted to and asks you "did you mind waiting?", what would you most likely say?

And I stand by it. If you try suicide, you are a loser. If you fail, you just sucked at another thing. I have yet to see a single plausible reason for suicide except maybe for an uncurable disease which would leave you in agonizing pain until your death. What was your motivation, Nio? And how did you try it?
And like I said - TRYING suicide is just a cry for help, there are fast, painless and very efficient ways to die.

the same age as some of the girls you dated
One girl, and I was 20 at the time, just to get back to the facts that you so often like to ignore. And like I said a million times, 15 in Europe != 15 in the US.

You shouldn't do it simply cause you have the need.....as if you were hungry.
Well....then what other motivation could you have for sex except desire? And don't give me that "oh I love you so much, I want to have sex with you and there's no other reason like the boner in my pants". Sex is about chemistry and about nature. I repeat, there is NOTHING spiritual about it.

You keep putting words into my mouth. I never called any one a whore, and I double checked.
Let's review that....bear with me here....

"its about being commited to one person and not having thousands of diseases."

"I believe they call it casual sex. As in lots of one night stand sort of deals"

"I mean more along the lines of tricking people to have sex with you, and then ditching them. Emotionally broken and what not."

"Humans tend to fall into the group of animals that either have 1 partern for "life" (until one dies... or soemthing like that) or 1 male gets all the action"

But maybe I'm just interpreting it all wrong? The first one clearly says to me that if you are not committed to one person for life, then you screw around everywhere unprotected and you have 1000s of STD.
The second one says that if you are having sex for fun, you need lots of one night stands to have fun and keep changing sex partners daily.
The third one tells me that if you want to have sex with someone out of a long, lasting relationship, you need to trick them into doing it with you and they will be scarred for life as a result.
The last one says that either you bond for life or you screw everyone in the ballpark.
Maybe you care to elaborate what you REALLY meant? Or am I the only one seeing this here??

[Kingcrazygenius]

So someone is a loser because they cry for help? Because they need to find out if someone does care about them? Sounds like we got us a sociopath.

[MrProAmerica]

Nonono, that's not what I said. You are a loser for resorting to this as a cry for help. It is a purely selfish act in my opinion and will probably cause the people that care for you great anguish. But then again, if people care for you, why try it in the first place?

[UltraDavid]

Dang dude, I was just about to post about how I thought your reply at the bottom of the second page was hilarious when I realized that this thread had actually made it to three pages, so I checked the third. Mistake! You can't rip on a dude who has tried to commit suicide for committing suicide. That's just not nice. And the unnecessary attacks on people who have religion and on Americans? Come on mang. And it isn't even true that Americans won't tell you exactly what they think. That's what we're known for, in fact; we're brutish Americans who have no sense of politesse and do whatever the crap they please even if others don't like it.

I'm down with the having of sex, but if someone else isn't because they feel it's wrong or their religion prevents them, I can totally understand that, what with being enough of a semi-religious Jew to limit the food I can eat. The only reason to not have sex that I feel is a bad one is that one is afraid of the risks involved.

[Nio the Namless]

But maybe I'm just interpreting it all wrong? The first one clearly says to me that if you are not committed to one person for life, then you screw around everywhere unprotected and you have 1000s of STD.
The second one says that if you are having sex for fun, you need lots of one night stands to have fun and keep changing sex partners daily.
The third one tells me that if you want to have sex with someone out of a long, lasting relationship, you need to trick them into doing it with you and they will be scarred for life as a result.
The last one says that either you bond for life or you screw everyone in the ballpark.
Maybe you care to elaborate what you REALLY meant? Or am I the only one seeing this here??
You are exaggerating what I say in your own mind (and to an extreem degree). Am I to explain why you do this? Perhaps you have a need to trasmit your idea of some other human being onto me, because you don't like how I think.

I don't even want to bother with you cause your only hearing what you want to hear.

[MrProAmerica]

So you'd rather avoid the argument? That's pretty lame dude....Fact of the matter is, I don't even know how you think, that's why I wanted you to tell me.

[Kingcrazygenius]

Why would he want to discuss anything with you when all you have waiting for him is more insults?

Still, it is interesting to see that people on both sides of the political spectrum can be cruel and heartless.

[Nio the Namless]

Why would he want to discuss anything with you when all you have waiting for him is more insults?

Still, it is interesting to see that people on both sides of the political spectrum can be cruel and heartless.
Bingo

MrProAmerica-You first try to classify me as a Christian Zealot, then a 15 year old, and then as some American dick head. Which is funny since most Americans dont' really believe in abstinence. Or at leat the ones I know and I live here. Then you take what I say and treat it like a like a line in Shakespere and tear it apart, deriving things I never said from it.

And besides I thought the whole capped section was pretty clear as to what I meant.

[MrProAmerica]

And besides I thought the whole capped section was pretty clear as to what I meant.
Apparently not. But feel free to avoid me.

[mulratt]

Fact of the matter is, that I say what I think.


Being direct doesnt equate honesty. Often, our short term emotions are irrational and expressing them leads to creating even more problems. Sometimes, if you just tolerate the other ppl, and dont go on a rant, the next time you see them, you had time to think and have become much more reasonable.



Generally, Americans seem to have problems with that since they are mostly superficial and prefer talking behind peoples backs instead of in there faces. I am not the only one who thinks that. Let me give you a little example: If your friend arrives three hours later than he wanted to and asks you "did you mind waiting?", what would you most likely say?


Typically, American culture is much more open than traditional ones like the East Asians or Africans. But then again, it's unfair to judge a person based on their nationality.
Nio's reasons for attempting to commit suicide is his own. His problems are personal and should not be linked to the USA.
You're just like Undisputed, thinking you know how people of other places rationalize things. Blatant stereotype, no?
Have the decency to tell Nio you're glad he failed.


But I think what MrPro is saying is that some girls want the sex. Worldwide culture has pointed to women somehow as the losers in sex. I guess because they scream, but more reasonably because they can become pregnant whereas the guy doesnt have that risk.
Women themselves think about sex more often then we assumed, but they dont do it as often cuz they dont want to be think of as sluts. Whereas as guy can "score", girls who have sex several times arent thought of as heroes.

So yeah I think it's a cultural problem. Society has instilled these ideas into us. We think all women can be hurt if you sleep with them and take it casually. You're not acknowledging that sexually open women exist, and the other term to describe them, sluts, is derogatory.

MrPro says, hey if they want it, then fine. It's just a matter of finding them. Be more careful there

[Nio the Namless]

On the notes of the thought patterns of men and women...

Now it is proven by science that women like sex just as much as men, but here seem to be a biological difference in how they think about it. I mean look at the surface differences.

Men-Hard core (and various other types) porn

Women-mostly romantic novels

Now a man's sexual thought consists of the act, for the most part. Probally a biological tendecy built into each of us. Women on the other hand tend to make up "fantasies." I don't mean things like doing it in the car. I mean they think of the whole thing. The date, what is said, atmosphere, how they are touched, alot of the times comfort, and only for a briff moment the actual act of sex. And then (unlike most men) they also go on to talking (or doing) things the day after. Now I am sure this varies alot between women, and I bet more then the variation between men.

I remember when my g/f asked me if I had any fantasies. And in the way she thought of them... no not really.

Now this isn't to say women are more turned on my romantic things, that just isn't the case. They are more turned on my more sexual imagery but they are slightly less so then men. And I would suspect they are more turned on my a romatic novel then the average guy.

So I do understand that both genders want sex. That is a given. But I am a bit of a romantic at heart and like to think of it in those terms. I am not different in the normal guy in my thought patterns (and you'd be surprised probally now normal).

However watching movies aimed at girls I think it is easy to see the difference. Some of them can get soooo sappy. And my g/f and serval other girls will be just like "awwwww" through it all.

(this really isn't about the topic at hand... more like a rambeling)

I have several statitics if you want to hear about this topic but I am fairly sure they would sound like I was getting them from a biased source. Even though it is from my psycology book.

And right now I am afraid that stating such things would be taken as a statment by me, rather then just raw data.

[Kingcrazygenius]

To be perfectly honest women who are as sexually liberated as men kinda freak me out, mostly because they seem to think about sex all the time, like guys do.

[Slay]

Abstinence

I'm a fan.
-Slay